VGMaps
General Boards => Map Gab => Topic started by: TerraEsperZ on September 15, 2011, 08:01:50 am
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I always found it annoying that the first SaGa game (that's the series the Final Fantasy Legend games belonged to) was never mapped properly while the second and third games were. It might have been because it had a very basic story, forgettable NPCs and incredibly simplistic graphics even for the Game Boy. In any case, I'm going to correct this injustice! There's just something about a series of game where you can visit several interconnected worlds that inspires me I guess.
This is just a placeholder for now but I should be able to post the maps for the first world over the next few days since I'm almost done with it. I'll be following a format very similar to the one used by Maquiladora for his/her maps of Final Fantasy Legend II, although I haven't heard back from him/her to know if it was okay for me to do so. I thought they were really comprehensive and I liked the idea of having some consistency across both map sets.
***EDIT 09/10/12***
Long story short, this project is close to being finished so I'm posting all the finished maps here.
It's finished!!!
*List updated 06/11/12*
(http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/9080/thefinalfantasylegend01.th.png) (http://img560.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend01.png/)
(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/381/thefinalfantasylegend02.th.png) (http://img96.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend02.png/)
(http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/8758/thefinalfantasylegend03.th.png) (http://img545.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend03.png/)
(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/7105/thefinalfantasylegend04.th.png) (http://img822.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend04.png/)
(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/8093/thefinalfantasylegend05.th.png) (http://img839.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend05.png/)
(http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/3360/scavefinal.th.png) (http://img197.imageshack.us/i/scavefinal.png/)
(http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/3782/thefinalfantasylegend07.th.png) (http://img547.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend07.png/)
(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/4562/thefinalfantasylegend08.th.png) (http://img62.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend08.png/)
(http://www.imageshack.us/thumbnail.png) (http://img210.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend09.png/)
(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/5148/thefinalfantasylegend10.th.png) (http://img189.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend10.png/)
(http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/1149/thefinalfantasylegend11.th.png) (http://img844.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend11.png/)
(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/2820/thefinalfantasylegend12.th.png) (http://img839.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend12.png/)
(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/9361/thefinalfantasylegend13.th.png) (http://img29.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend13.png/)
(http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/363/thefinalfantasylegend14.th.png) (http://img855.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend14.png/)
(http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/2630/thefinalfantasylegend15.th.png) (http://img580.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend15.png/)
(http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/8184/scabinfinal.th.png) (http://img811.imageshack.us/i/scabinfinal.png/)
(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/2880/thefinalfantasylegend17.th.png) (http://img832.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend17.png/)
(http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6554/thefinalfantasylegend18.th.png) (http://img84.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend18.png/)
(http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/5262/thefinalfantasylegend19.th.png) (http://img577.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend19.png/)
(http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3752/thefinalfantasylegend20.th.png) (http://img441.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend20.png/)
(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/7015/thefinalfantasylegend21.th.png) (http://img132.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend21.png/)
(http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/280/thefinalfantasylegend22.th.png) (http://img547.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend22.png/)
(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4348/thefinalfantasylegend23.th.png) (http://img213.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend23.png/)
(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/1673/thefinalfantasylegend24.th.png) (http://img59.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend24.png/)
(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/1092/thefinalfantasylegend25.th.png) (http://img10.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend25.png/)
(https://img141.imageshack.us/img141/8149/thefinalfantasylegend26.th.png) (https://img141.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend26.png/)
(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/1009/thefinalfantasylegend27.th.png) (http://img405.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend27.png/)
(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8049/thefinalfantasylegend28.th.png) (http://img5.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend28.png/)
(http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/4698/thefinalfantasylegend29.th.png) (http://img600.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend29.png/)
(http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/6479/thefinalfantasylegend30.th.png) (http://img571.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend30.png/)
(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/8017/thefinalfantasylegend31.th.png) (http://img651.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend31.png/)
(http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/9277/thefinalfantasylegend32.th.png) (http://img560.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend32.png/)
(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/6374/thefinalfantasylegend33.th.png) (http://img4.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend33.png/)
(http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/5849/thefinalfantasylegend34.th.png) (http://img546.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend34.png/)
(http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/4391/thefinalfantasylegend35.th.png) (http://img22.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend35.png/)
(http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/5734/thefinalfantasylegend36.th.png) (http://img339.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend36.png/)
(http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/2302/thefinalfantasylegend37.th.png) (http://img201.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend37.png/)
(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1614/thefinalfantasylegend38.th.png) (http://img163.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend38.png/)
(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/6513/sgravefinal.th.png) (http://img819.imageshack.us/i/sgravefinal.png/)
(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/5453/thefinalfantasylegend40.th.png) (http://img822.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend40.png/)
(http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/9974/shutfinal.th.png) (http://img803.imageshack.us/i/shutfinal.png/)
(http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/1708/thefinalfantasylegend42.th.png) (http://img607.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend42.png/)
(http://www.imageshack.us/thumbnail.png) (http://img822.imageshack.us/i/thefinalfantasylegend43.png/)
(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/7909/sparadisefinal.th.png) (http://img832.imageshack.us/i/sparadisefinal.png/)
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Here's the first bunch of maps, covering the first world and almost all of the second.
I'm looking for comments and criticisms as always, especially concerning the location names, the map legend, the overall layouts, etc. The few location names given in-game sound pretty clunky (Castle of Sword/Armor/Shield) and for the rest, I had to come up with descriptive names instead. Given that English isn't my native language, I'm not convinced my choices were the best. Regarding the names of the worlds (World of Continent/Ocean/Sky/Ruins), only the last one sound right but I was mainly trying to be consistent with all four so that could use some improvements too.
Let's begin with the first world...
*EDIT 09/10/12*
See opening post for latest maps
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First world continued...
*EDIT 09/10/12*
See opening post for latest maps
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Moving on the second world...
*EDIT 09/10/12*
See opening post for latest maps
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Second world continued
but not finished yet... and finished!
*EDIT 09/10/12*
Outdated maps removed
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hmm think you can replace lightblue and lightgreen with darker Color like Red, Black, etc?
Its hard to see. The other Color work just fine only these 2 light Color not. Thank you. ^^
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I was really afraid of that. I'm trying to come up with colours that are bright and distinct enough without being so bright that they blend in too much with the light graphics of the maps themselves.
I started with approximately the same colours as Maquiladora but I'm starting to regret it a bit. Bright red (treasures) and dark blue(doors/stairs) work very well, but I was having problems coming up with a lighter blue distinct enough from the dark one as well as a good-looking green that wasn't too light. Tell me if the following map looks better with tweaked colors.
*EDIT 09/10/12*
See opening post for latest maps
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That looked better than with the old Color.
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Just a heads up - I've decided to map both the original Game Boy game as well as the Wonderswan remake at roughly the same time. Thanks to Cheat Engine, I'm having an even simpler time playing with the player's position in that version than on the original, allowing me to capture the maps in their entirety. From now on, I'll be posting both version of each map at the same time, and I'll even go back to edit my previous posts once I'm finished with the first world. I'll also be slightly re-doing the layout of the Game Boy maps as well to be consistent across both sets.
I'd really like to know from native English speakers which of the following names would be better:
1) "World of Continent", "World of Ocean", "World of Sky" and "World of Ruins"
OR
"Continent World", "Ocean World", "Sky World", "Ruins World"?
I want to use the same format for all four, but I'd like to know if "Ruins World" is grammatically corrrect, because that format sounds a lot better.
2) "Bandits Cave" OR "Bandits' Cave" OR "Bandit Cave"?
Can a cave really be considered as belonging to a bunch of bandits, or is "bandits" an adjective?
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According to my English Vocabulary, the most acceptable names are the "World of ..." since Continent World and Ruins World sound a bit silly like "Ruins World" is like a present perfect tense action. "Ocean World" and "Sky World" seem exceptionally okay. Of all the three words in the second set of options, I'd go for Bandit Cave, since the cave is occupied by bandits but may not forever. I see things like Brigand Fort or Empire Outpost a lot in the Exile games by Spiderweb Software.
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Is "continent" referred to in the game? Because that's not really a word that's used for anything other than Europe, Africa, etc. What about just "land"? Anyway, Continent World, Ocean World and Sky World are definitely better. World of Ruins sounds better, but Ruins World is probably fine for consistency. Or even Ruin World.
Bandits' Cave is more proper. Bandit Cave is my next choice if you don't want it to be possessive.
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From what I could find, "continent" is how it's been translated in the various FAQS and web sites covering this game, including those who translated the Wonderswan remake, and feeding the japanese symbols shown in the latter in an online translator do return "the world / the universe" and "continent" quite literally. Besides, the first two SaGa games play around with the idea of multiple worlds that are normally out of reach with one another through normal travel so "world" works best in that respect. I guess they probably meant land rather than an actual continent (in contrast to the other worlds with ocean and sky) but the translation is almost impossible to misconstrue so "continent" it is.
I wanted to be consistent with the world names, but considering that there are a number of side-worlds for which I also need to come up with names, I'm probably going to use whatever format fits best for each.
And I'll be sticking with "Bandit Cave" since I've just redone the labels ;D.
I just found the manual online, and they explicitly refer to the first two worlds as "World of Continent" and "World of Ocean", and although awkward, those names are at least official. They also use "Bandits' Lair" so I guess I'll go redo those labels now...
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I always found it annoying that the first SaGa game (that's the series the Final Fantasy Legend games belonged to) was never mapped properly while the second and third games were. It might have been because it had a very basic story, forgettable NPCs and incredibly simplistic graphics even for the Game Boy.
SaGa 1 is my favorite of the trilogy because it's so untamed and crazy. You can go around one-shotting everything and get through the game fast even without the memory corruption bug (http://magweasel.com/2009/07/06/the-final-fantasy-legend/).
This is just a placeholder for now but I should be able to post the maps for the first world over the next few days since I'm almost done with it. I'll be following a format very similar to the one used by Maquiladora for his/her maps of Final Fantasy Legend II, although I haven't heard back from him/her to know if it was okay for me to do so. I thought they were really comprehensive and I liked the idea of having some consistency across both map sets.
I suggest you use the best format for the user instead of imitating old mapsets. Specifically, the practice of using symbols to mark points of interest then labeling them on the side is a relic of grainy magazine scans. It's better to put info right where it's needed, with arrows, transparency, whatever, instead of making the user play Where's Waldo with tiny letters and numbers. (This is a mistake I made myself with the FFL3 maps.) How would you like to use a road map that has all the street names in the corner? Of course, you can keep copies of the non-overlaid layers for future use.
Also, you should include the prices if you are going to list shop stock.
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Nice to see someone actually challenging my work!
I suggest you use the best format for the user instead of imitating old mapsets. Specifically, the practice of using symbols to mark points of interest then labeling them on the side is a relic of grainy magazine scans. It's better to put info right where it's needed, with arrows, transparency, whatever, instead of making the user play Where's Waldo with tiny letters and numbers. (This is a mistake I made myself with the FFL3 maps.) How would you like to use a road map that has all the street names in the corner? Of course, you can keep copies of the non-overlaid layers for future use.
My main reason for following an "existing" formula is not so much out of imitation but rather because I liked the format and it was essentially a refined version of the system I used when I first submitted maps for Final Fantasy Legend II (they have since been replaced of course).
You have to understand that I create screenshot maps because I want to showcase the beauty of the maps themselves first and foremost. Anything that detracts from that, I add grudgingly only because I don't want the maps to be completely useless. But the less that hides the map, the better. If I were to use labels, they'd have to be smaller and/or more discrete than the ones you used for Final Fantasy Legend III because they hide too much in my opinion. There's also the little matter of the various locations rarely having official names, which makes me hesitant to paste them all over the place.
Heck, this is the exact dilemma I run into every time I try to map an adventure or RPG game, and it never gets any easier. Understand that if I don't follow your ideas, it's not because I don't respect them, but that they sacrifice too much of what's most important in my work, and that's the aesthetic aspect. I'll still make a few attempts but I don't guarantee anything.
Also, you should include the prices if you are going to list shop stock.
Duly noted. I thought about it initially, but after I had a done a dozen maps, I'd forgotten about this aspect.
Anyway, thanks for the honest criticism!
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Nothing new to post yet, but I've taken Dammit9x's comments into serious consideration. As a result, numbers & letters are now only used to denote connections between doors and/or stairs, and to indicate the location and content of hidden items and chests. Locations, entrances and exits are now clearly labeled and I have to admit that it does look better than before. Of course, now people new to this thread won't understand what half of it is talking about, but I didn't want to clutter things by posting the same maps over and over again.
As for the names, I've found another "official" source for names, namely the old "Game Boy Nintendo Player's Guide". Consequently, I've gone with "Bandit's Lair" since, after checking, the enemy leader there turns out to actually be named "Bandit". And for the world, I've simply gone with the "World 1: the Continent" template. So simple, and yet I hadn't thought about it.
Am I the only mapper here who's this insecure in his choices or what :P?
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Sorry for how chaotic this thread is turning out to be, but it's at least an accurate depiction of my thought process whenever I'm working on a personal project.
So, where are we with this?
First of all, I've decided to limit the thread to the Game Boy version of the game only and to start another thread for the Wonderswan remake, if only because I'd like one of the threads to have some sense of order. Plus, I won't be forced to hop from one game to the other constantly to keep up on both sides.
Secondly, I've removed all the earlier maps and replaced them with updated version taking into account the criticisms I've received as well as incorporating various corrections, additions and better names. Lessons learned with this set will be carried over to the remake's.
*This is why I usually always wait until I've fully mapped a game before doing the map legend and trying to be "artistic". As you can see, I tend to change my mind quite often before settling on something that satisfies me.*
Oh and finally, everything shown on my map is real and nothing has been extrapolated thanks to those nifty camera codes! I'm saying this because some off-screen areas are different here than on the maps in that previously mentioned "Nintendo Player's Guide - Game Boy".
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Just a heads up that I've resumed mapping this game. I finally managed to work through the issues that were driving me nuts, namely how to point out the stores/guilds that weren't identified without obscuring the map too much (solution: add a bordered icon/label over the sellers and simply *try* not to get annoyed by it). Also, how to reconcile having maps where areas are divided by floors and some where they aren't (solution-of sorts: stop thinking about it).
Yeah, I've got issues.
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Seems like we share some OCD issues. You are using the same solution for your first issue as I did for my FFVIa maps. Also, I tend to over-think things and it really gets to me. For my FFVIa maps, the bordered, 16x16 pixel image I use has to be in the exact location that the event occurs, as well. My program tells me exactly where ports happen and I have to put the icons there or I will explode.
Glad I'm not the only one that's insane. :D
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...And almost a year later, I'm *again* resuming work on this. I've spent the last few days porting everything to GIMP while trying to learn the basics of it; it's taken some time but the added flexibility for labeling is much appreciated.
At the time I stopped, I had mapped most of the rest of the game (excluding the last part of the Tower as well as the second version of it) but never posted it since I was changing layout and lettering scheme every hour or so. I should post updated versions of all existing maps as well as newer ones in a few days.
Although most of my insecurities about labeling have been taken care of, there was a special case I wasn't sure how to handle. See, there's a map early on where the treasure needed to leave the first world is hidden, as well as the boss guarding it. However, you can only obtain said treasure (and fight the boss) when you come back to that map after completing a whole bunch of stuff in that world. I wasn't sure if I should point out the location of the treasure and the boss since they only appear much later on. I *hate* stuff like that where a map changes just enough to want to point it out but not enough to justify putting together a second version of it.
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In my Secret Of Evermore maps, I used splitscreens for the parts that changed after returning to early locations with a flying vehicle obtained late in the game (Windwalker). For example on https://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/SuperNES/SecretOfEvermore-Prehistoria-WesternSwamp.png (https://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/SuperNES/SecretOfEvermore-Prehistoria-WesternSwamp.png). For very small changes, I added them directly into the original maps.
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Okay, so here's another update with some actual content for once.
Regarding my last post, I decided not to include the "hidden" bosses to avoid unnecessary clutter. Besides, if you're playing the game and following the story, you should expect them to attack you in those specific instances. There are a few maps later on where I've actually included a "before" and an "after" version since it was warranted.
Anyway, I've been playing around with the format a little, fixing some font errors I did as well as adding a border to make the label text more readable, changing some location names based on the actual game text, rearranging rooms placement and other such stuff.
-Bandit's Lair has been renamed to Bandit's Cave. The game makes it clear that Bandit is an actual guy so that part is unchanged, and since he's in a cave...
-Sea Castle has been renamed to Undersea Castle. The game calls it The Castle at the Bottom of the Sea but that's way too long. I changed it for Undersea to be consistent with Undersea Town.
-Byak-Ko's Hideout has been renamed to Sacred Palace. It is named as such in the game by an NPC as the resting place of the White Sphere but it wasn't obvious at first that he was talking about this place.
I've updated the first post with the following:
-World 1: Overworld, Base Town, Town of Hero, Castle of Armor, South Town, Bandit's Cave, Castle of Sword, Castle of Shield
-World 2: Overworld, Port Town, Northeast Island Town, Old Man's Cabin, Seafloor, Undersea Town, Undersea Castle
-World 3: Overworld, Sky Town, Flying Castle, Hidden Town, Resistance Base, Jail, Sacred Palace
-World 4: Overworld, Southwest Town, Library
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I've updated the first post with the following:
-World 2: Overworld Surface, Overworld Seafloor (both renamed for better clarity)
-World 4: Akiba Town, Ameyoko town, Atomic Power Plant
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I've updated the first post with the following:
-World 1: Overworld (I've reduced the size of the map's border area to comply with the same standard I've used for the smaller maps)
-World 2: Overworld Seafloor (same thing)
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I've updated the first post with the following:
-World 1: Base Town (added which floor of the tower the door leads to)
-World 2: Overworld Surface (idem)
-World 3: Overworld (idem)
-World 4: Overworld (idem)
-World 4: Skycraper
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I've updated the first post with the following:
-Tower
-Paradise Side-World: Overworld
-Paradise Side-World: Paradise Village
-Torture Side-World: Overworld
-Fish Statue Side-World: Overworld
-Cloud Side-World: Overworld
-Lake Side-World: Overworld
-Forest Side-World: Overworld
-Forest Side-World: Forest Castle
-World 4: So-Cho's Grave
-Flower Side-World: Overworld
-Flower Side-World: Old Man's Hut
Almost finished! Only three maps left...
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I've updated the first post with new versions of every maps as well as the last three:
-World 1: Base Town (Revisited)
-Tower (Exterior)
-Creator's Paradise
Before submitting the whole thing to the site, I'd like some more comments on these supposedly 'final' versions. I most likely won't be changing much (if anything) at this point but you never know, I might have made a few mistakes somewhere since I've never fully mapped a JRPG before. The only major changes since the last update has been:
-Changing the background color from black to dark grey in order for black map areas to have visible boundaries;
-Changing a few names, including the world names to follow the generally accepted convention of 'World of SOMETHING' format. It's no more clunky than using 'Bandit' and 'Creator' as proper names and everyone's been using it, including the instruction manual. Also, I decided to use simply 'Tower' for the tower interior that you travel through for most of the game while using 'Tower (Exterior)' for when you climb the outside of it near the end of the game. The reasoning behind not also using '(Interior)' for the first map is that it would be redundant to have to add it to every tower entrance label;
-Adding the location of a few items that are obtained by NPCs.
Anyway, please comment so I can send this to JonLeung :).
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I just got done checking out your maps, and they look great. The labels are well placed and easy to follow. I like the way you split of the floors for multiple floor areas. They ready to be uploaded to me.
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Thanks. They've now been submitted.
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Thanks. They've now been uploaded.
Awesome job, TerraEsperZ. As I mentioned to you, though I haven't played many original Game Boy RPGs, for whatever reason I have a fascination with how these epic adventures can fit in such a small cartridge. With the miniaturization of everything technological, that some people can carry the entire Super NES library in their cell phone, it's hardly surprising now, but in 1990, having just one big handheld game blew my mind. I guess considering at the time handheld games were otherwise like Game & Watches or Tiger Electronics games... Though now I should really play some of the GB FFs to see if they're as amazing as I've always imagined.
I find it interesting that of the four Game Boy (non-Color, non-Advance) FFs, Final Fantasy Adventure (https://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/GB-GBC/index.htm#FinalFantasyAdventure) (RyuMaster), The Final Fantasy Legend (https://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/GB-GBC/index.htm#FinalFantasyLegend) (TerraEsperZ), Final Fantasy Legend II (https://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/GB-GBC/index.htm#FinalFantasyLegendII) (maquiladora) and Final Fantasy Legend III (https://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/GB-GBC/index.htm#FinalFantasyLegendIII) (Dammit 9x) are each entirely mapped by different mappers. Nothing wrong with that, of course. Just an observation.