VGMaps

General Boards => Mapping Tips/Guides => Topic started by: feos on October 19, 2012, 09:40:20 AM



Title: BizHawk emulator - mapping feature requests
Post by: feos on October 19, 2012, 09:40:20 AM
EDIT:
You can talk to BH developers (zeromus, natt) at tasvideos
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13464
#tasvideos or #bizhawk on freenode
or just post in this thread, I will bring all requests before their eyes.

I compile interims here:
http://code.google.com/p/feos-tas/downloads/detail?name=BizHawk.zip

OLD POST:
BizHawk provides the most accurate SNES emulation (bsnes core) and TONS of features (still developed though). The must important for us is custom backdrop (canvas) color, available through Graphics Debugger dialog when SNES ROM is loaded. Doubleclick to change the color. Note that switching layers is possible via hotkeys. And screenshots can be saved to clipboard directly.

http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n547/feos-theos/GraphicsDebugger.png

Latest release:
http://code.google.com/p/bizhawk/downloads/list
Install prereqs at first:
http://code.google.com/p/bizhawk/downloads/detail?name=bizhawk_prereqs.zip

Request other features please!


Title: Re: SNES mapping - backdrop color solved!
Post by: TerraEsperZ on October 25, 2012, 02:33:12 PM
Great news, though I'm puzzled as to why it took so many years to get a half-decent SNES debugger. At this point, I've been using ZSNES for over 15 years and I'm really not feeling ready to jump ship yet.

From what I remember, the bsnes core was extremely accurate but quite CPU intensive back when I first heard of it. Is this still the case? Also, does it support all the additional chips that later games featured like the Super FX, the Cx4, the SA1 and S-DD1?


Title: Re: SNES mapping - backdrop color solved!
Post by: feos on October 25, 2012, 08:58:04 PM
To speed up the emulator you need to disable things like Rewind, that take some of the powers. I managed to get full speed for snes. I don't know about additional chips, probably it does support them.

It took years because rerecording emulators were developed slowly, by few people, and independently from each other. BizHawk unites the comunity's powers, as well as platforms, to emulate as much as possible as well as possible. And it's currently VERY actively developed, features are implemented in days after you request them, so join in and request some.


Title: Re: SNES mapping - backdrop color solved!
Post by: Peardian on October 25, 2012, 09:03:49 PM
Nice! It's a shame that SNES emulators still haven't quite caught up to the functionality of even VBA.


Changing the backdrop color will make ripping from Kirby Super Star a whole lot easier!


Title: Re: SNES mapping - backdrop color solved!
Post by: feos on October 26, 2012, 06:46:21 AM
Nice! It's a shame that SNES emulators still haven't quite caught up to the functionality of even VBA.
Did I mention BizHawk is BEING DEVELOPED right now? Probably I forgot to say:
REQUEST FEATURES!


Title: Re: SNES mapping - backdrop color solved!
Post by: JonLeung on October 26, 2012, 09:24:15 AM
Changing the backdrop color will make ripping from Kirby Super Star a whole lot easier!

Sounds like you're planning to map it...and if not, insert obvious request here.  :P


Title: Re: SNES mapping - backdrop color solved!
Post by: Peardian on October 26, 2012, 04:17:56 PM
Considering the biggest reason I didn't attempt it was the black background... I might. ;)


@feos: A few features I'd like to see come to mind, though I don't know if any of these are already implemented. These are pretty much all VBA features.
-map viewing, since having to constantly use bgmapper is a pain
-tileset viewing
-palette viewing, though that looks like it might already be in
-sprite placement viewer (I know at least one DS emulator has that, but I don't know if the SNES works in a way to allow for it)
-a way to view/disable certain effects? For example, the black gradient at the bottom of Kirby Super Star levels, the gradient backgrounds in Yoshi's Island


Title: Re: SNES mapping - backdrop color solved!
Post by: feos on October 26, 2012, 11:54:07 PM
Looks like you didn't try to open Graphics Debugger. And what's "map viewing"?


Title: Re: SNES mapping - backdrop color solved!
Post by: feos on October 29, 2012, 08:13:07 AM
Additional chips are supported, just google the images.
http://tasvideos.org/Bizhawk/SnesFirmwares.html


Title: Re: SNES mapping - backdrop color solved!
Post by: Peardian on October 29, 2012, 04:26:45 PM
I don't actually have the emulator. :P


And my map viewing I mean what you get when you open up the Map Viewer in VBA.


Title: Re: SNES mapping - backdrop color solved!
Post by: feos on October 29, 2012, 08:53:34 PM
I should have posted the whole thing :P


Title: Re: SNES mapping - backdrop color solved!
Post by: Peardian on October 29, 2012, 09:07:25 PM
Oh! Well then. I guess it already has all that. :P


Oh, wait! I have an idea for a feature I haven't actually seen yet!

How about an option to export graphics (be it tilesets or maps) with the transparent color actually transparent? Every emulator I've seen always exports the colors completely solid, which can be a hassle to use sometimes. Having an option to export with proper transparencies (by reading how the game uses the palette? I dunno) would be really handy for mapping and sprite ripping. Here are two examples on where it would be really handy:

-tilesets that use multiple base colors for different parts of the same tileset (ex: Mario & Luigi)
-tilesets that use the same color as the base color AND in the graphic proper (ex: Kirby Super Star)


Title: Re: SNES mapping - backdrop color solved!
Post by: feos on October 30, 2012, 07:02:18 AM
I don't quite understand what you mean. It would be perfect if you registered at TASVideos and ask in the thread. Or at least at #tasvideos IRC! Ping adelikat there (may be BimmyLee atm). Or enter #tasemu and ask right away. Both on Freenode.


Title: Re: SNES mapping - backdrop color solved!
Post by: TerraEsperZ on October 30, 2012, 08:47:46 AM
About that Graphics Debugger screenshot, now *that* makes me want to try it out!


Title: Re: SNES mapping - backdrop color solved!
Post by: feos on October 30, 2012, 09:35:54 AM
I compile interims here:
http://code.google.com/p/feos-tas/downloads/detail?name=BizHawk.zip

And yes, freenode #tasvideos is a place to ask anything you wish.


Title: Re: SNES mapping - backdrop color solved!
Post by: snesmaster on November 14, 2012, 12:16:48 PM
I just saw this thread.  I tested it out, and it appears that the colors in this are slightly brighter then zSNES and vSNES.  I tried it out on Chrono Trigger on the Crono sprite, and it is not the same color.  Is there away to adjust this so it matches the colors from zSNES.  Is there a setting I'm missing?  Normally there is not a problem with different emulators using different colors for the SNES even though it happens all the time for the NES.  I thought the SNES had exact color values so it should stay the same from one emulator to another?


Title: Re: SNES mapping - backdrop color solved!
Post by: TerraEsperZ on November 14, 2012, 03:57:01 PM
Well, the SNES uses 5 bits per color channel instead of 8 bits like modern computers. The translation from 5 to 8 bits value can be done in more than one way depending on whether the coders are looking for accuracy or efficiency, and this is why most emulators for example will use (248,248,248) for pure white instead of (255,255,255).

Fixing this would require some coding to allow for an alternate color rendering routine, which is actually something that Maxim once did with the Sega Genesis emulator Gens KMod.


Title: Re: SNES mapping - backdrop color solved!
Post by: snesmaster on November 14, 2012, 05:12:23 PM
Well the color shift means I would not switch to this emulator for a game I already started mapping using zSNES/vSNES.  What is the general feel?  Should we request that they match the colors to zSNES so it all stays consistent, or is it more accurate and we should shift to this new color scheme for future maps?


Title: Re: SNES mapping - backdrop color solved!
Post by: TerraEsperZ on November 14, 2012, 05:51:09 PM
Well, we could always ask for an option to display the same colors as Zsnes/Snes9x (assuming they're both identical). It's a rather unimportant issue but if the programmer's looking for suggestions, that would be a good one.


Title: Re: SNES mapping - backdrop color solved!
Post by: feos on November 14, 2012, 08:50:20 PM
Probably it can be done with palette files, like in fceux. Will inquire today.


Title: Re: SNES mapping - backdrop color solved!
Post by: snesmaster on November 15, 2012, 06:47:10 AM
Requested Features:
1. Be able to view sprites in the "Graphics Debugger"

2. Be able to turn on and off different parts of sprites like can be done in vSNES (That way if one sprite is covering another you can uncover it)

3. Have an option to turn off the text displays when saving / loading states and when turning on and off different layers.  It is annoying having to wait for the message to clear before taking a screen shot.  Maybe add to the "View" menu so it can be toggled on or off.

4. Have Fast / Slow motion at different speed options, like 200%, 400%..., or 50%, 25%... that can be set up to toggle with the "+" or "-" keys to slow down or speed up.

5. Be able to set the color pallet so it is the same standard that both zSNES and SNES9x use to keep consistency in mapping projects.


Title: Re: SNES mapping - backdrop color solved!
Post by: feos on November 15, 2012, 07:21:28 AM
3) the OSD is not captured in a screenshot by default, but you can toggle the behavior with file -> screenshot -> Capture OSD
4) sounds like the exact feature we already have


Title: Re: SNES mapping - backdrop color solved!
Post by: snesmaster on November 15, 2012, 07:28:37 AM
3) Kewl, I just found the "Ctrl + C" to copy to the clipboard, and that works just as well as "Alt + Print screen" and that way I don't need to worry about the text messages.

4) I just looked through again and found it.  Sorry I missed it the first time through.


Title: Re: SNES mapping - backdrop color solved!
Post by: feos on November 15, 2012, 08:00:40 AM
Copy snapshot to the clipboard was my suggestion a year ago :D


Title: Re: SNES mapping - backdrop color solved!
Post by: snesmaster on November 15, 2012, 08:10:21 AM
Man, I need to look on these forums more often!  Playing F-Zero while watching it live in the Graphics Viewer was awesome!  That would have made mapping that game so much easier then it was when I mapped it with zSNES/vSNES.  Once they implement the color palette to match zSNES / SNES9x I will switch over to this as my main SNES mapping emulator of choice!

Who is your main point of contact?  Are you posting to a forum or in e-mail contact with one of the programmers.  I want to let them know how much I appreciate all the work they are doing.


Title: Re: SNES mapping - backdrop color solved!
Post by: feos on November 15, 2012, 08:29:36 AM
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=64 - register and post a thread were all cooperation between tasvideos and vgmaps could happen.
#bizhawk or #tasvideos on freenode


Title: Re: SNES mapping - backdrop color solved!
Post by: snesmaster on November 15, 2012, 09:28:37 AM
Thanks, I just started a thread over there to open up a dialog for the BizHawk programmers and us mappers.


Title: Re: SNES mapping - backdrop color solved!
Post by: feos on November 15, 2012, 09:38:44 AM
In case anyone wishes to follow:
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13464


Title: Re: SNES mapping - backdrop color solved!
Post by: creaothceann on November 15, 2012, 10:26:54 AM
Hi, I'm new here (followed the link from tasvideos). :)

does [bsnes] support all the additional chips that later games featured like the Super FX, the Cx4, the SA1 and S-DD1?

Yes, afaik there's only the special chip(s) for the Japanese Shogi games left.

having to constantly use bgmapper is a pain

What are you using bgmapper for that vSNES can't do?

sprite placement viewer (I know at least one DS emulator has that, but I don't know if the SNES works in a way to allow for it)

Do you mean showing the coordinates as numbers, or the sprites as outlines?

How about an option to export graphics (be it tilesets or maps) with the transparent color actually transparent? Every emulator I've seen always exports the colors completely solid, which can be a hassle to use sometimes. Having an option to export with proper transparencies (by reading how the game uses the palette? I dunno) would be really handy for mapping and sprite ripping.

I don't quite understand what you mean.

I think he means exporting e.g. the sprite layer as PNG with all in-game transparent pixels set transparent (either via transparent color like in GIF, or alpha transparency).

I just saw this thread. I tested it out, and it appears that the colors in this are slightly brighter than zSNES and vSNES.

As TerraEsperZ said it'd be easy to convert 5-bit <-> 8-bit colors, but there seems to be something else going on.

The latest versions of bsnes calculate all colors at 10 bits per color channel, to allow for greater precision for its NES core and the SNES brightness register. This may be where differences might occur.

(I like it when the lowest bits are clear - means I can separate between pure PC white and pure SNES white in the same picture.)

Be able to turn on and off different parts of sprites like can be done in vSNES (That way if one sprite is covering another you can uncover it)

You mean turning off individual hardware sprites (0-127) to reveal parts of software sprites (e.g. the player character).


Title: Re: SNES mapping - backdrop color solved!
Post by: snesmaster on November 15, 2012, 03:37:50 PM
For the color, will there be a way to have an option to make it match the zSNES / snes9x color pallet?  This is a critical element for keeping the map colors consistent with previous maps that have been created.

For the sprites, I just know vSNES lets you scroll through a window that displays 127 sprite channels and you can click a check box to turn each on on or off.

Sample of changing the transparent color in the Graphics Debugger window:
www.nesmaps.com/share/Sample1.png

Sample of turning on and off sprite parts:
www.nesmaps.com/share/Sample2.png


Title: Re: SNES mapping - backdrop color solved!
Post by: creaothceann on November 16, 2012, 02:53:27 AM
vSNES lets you scroll through a window that displays 127 sprite channels

128 ;)


Title: Re: SNES mapping - backdrop color solved!
Post by: snesmaster on November 16, 2012, 09:21:29 AM
I always forget that it starts with 0 so to add one :)


Title: Re: BizHawk emulator - mapping feature requests
Post by: feos on November 17, 2012, 03:06:38 PM
Making the snes palette selectable just like in fceux is currently worked on.


Title: Re: BizHawk emulator - mapping feature requests
Post by: snesmaster on November 17, 2012, 05:35:09 PM
Sounds great, let me know once a new build is available so I can test it out.