VGMaps
General Boards => Maps In Progress => Topic started by: Trop on February 05, 2013, 08:15:48 pm
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Projects I started but never finished
Stargate (SNES)
Zero the Kamikaze Squirrel (SNES)
Ardy Lightfoot (SNES)
Aidyn Chronicles (N64)
Bishin Densetsu Zoku (SNES)
Energy Breaker (SNES)
Wild Arms (PSX)
Community Pom (PSX)
Gon (SNES)
Earthworm Jim (PC)
Battletoads Doubledragon (SNES)
Gauntlet (NES)
Jim Power 3D (SNES)
Legend of Mana (PSX)
Rhapsody (PSX)
Spell Craft (SNES)
Turok 2 (N64)
Mischief Makers (N64)
Zelda Twilight Princess (Wii)
Alien Vs Predator (GB)
Appleseed (SNES)
Thousand Arms (PSX)
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NES Gauntlet project is going well. I'll have the first 10 levels done soon.
Because of a new PSX sound gizmo I can rip the soundtrack from most PSX games in no time so I'm going through some games I like. If there's a game you want me to test the gizmo on just say so and I might be able to get you a soundtrack.
Speaking of which:
-Latest completed projects-
Herc's Adventure soundtrack
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-Latest completed projects-
Dragon Knight 4 (PSX) soundtrack
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-Latest completed projects-
First 10 Gauntlet (NES) stages complete and sent to Jon.
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-Latest completed projects-
Medevil 2 soundtrack
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-Latest completed projects-
Magical Drop F (PSX) soundtrack
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-Latest completed projects-
Skeleton Warriors (PSX) soundtrack
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-Latest completed projects-
Jersey Devil (PSX) soundtrack
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This should really be renamed "Tropicon's soundtrack projects" ;).
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Hah! No kidding. And I've got 5 more before I finish.
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Make that 4, I'm dropping Final Doom. This thing really does make PSX sound ripping easy though, I can get just about anything.
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-Latest completed projects-
Dark Stone (PSX) soundtrack
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-Latest completed projects-
Croc (PSX) soundtrack
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-Latest completed projects-
Power Slave (PSX) soundtrack
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-Latest completed projects-
Torneko The Last Hope (PSX) soundtrack
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Hey Jon, could you post my Aidyn Chronicles stuff in the next update?
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Thanks.
Remade the lost woods in Link to the Past with all three kinds fog and shade. This was really hard, I couldn't figure out any kind of filter so I had code push the layers around. Tried it at misery mire too but it was just too much.
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Mapped out all areas in Super Putty. Strange game. Everyone should play at least five minutes worth at some point in their lives.
Mapped out all rounds in Arkanoid.
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Wow, didn't expect to ever see Super Putty mapped here. I had it as a kid, and never quite figured it out.... Looking forward to seeing the maps!
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The objective in each stage is to get the little robots from one end to the other (the exit). As far as I can tell Super Putty and Putty Squad, made by the same people, are some crazy stories about a blob rescuing robots or other putties from evil cartoony wizards. Everything in both games, other then the rescues, are for score only so you can ignore all the chaos if you want, it's just for fun.
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WIP: Ancient Magic (SNES) and Phantom Hourglass.
I can only get in game maps out of Phantom Hourglass but I'll be getting absolutely everything from Ancient Magic. I haven't been working on Gauntlet since it's mapping hell. Does anybody have an NES emu with layer control?
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I'd expect most of them to have it, but I know at least FCEUX has it (though you have to add "gNoBGFillColor 100" in the fceux.cfg file in order for the overscan color to not be black). Of course, the NES only has two layers, Sprites and Background so you're still pretty limited.
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Thanks. I'll try that.
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Legend of Zelda - Phantom Hourglass?
Actually i have done most of it. There are some details left, so once i'm done with Dragon Warrior 3, i will replay it and and the remaining details.
Here a Seamap with details added.
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Oh. Well I was just doing the raws.
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-Latest completed projects-
Phantom Hourglass (mini maps)
Strange game. Felt like Zelda 3 and 4 ran into each other.
King of the Rally (SNES).
Ouch. All BGMapper on this one. It was choppy and blocky and never stopped fighting me.
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-Latest completed projects-
The Legend Of Zelda: Spirit Tracks (mini maps)
Coron Land
and finally Gauntlet 51-60... and with that I'm done with Gauntlet. Somebody else can do the last 40 levels, it's just taking too much time and energy I don't have to spare.
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-Latest completed projects-
Ancient Magic
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In progress: Super Bonk.
I'm not working this one to completion before I release it because I may not get all the way through. It's just something I wanted to try and if the going gets too rough I'll quit. So in a departure from my usual routine I'll release maps as I finish them, and one map per image instead of all the locations of one area grouped together.
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Jon, Email isn't working so here's all the super bonk bonus rooms and the "demo" room that should come before China Town. The bonus rooms are in no real order and can be re-accessed in lots of places so I don't know how you want to organize them. Also they have no official name that I can find unlike the other levels.
Could you also post my Dun Quest (SNES) and Gex 3 (N64) stuff?
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........
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I noticed you put up more Mischief Makers maps, and I have a question about the game's logo you used. How did you rip it? Which version did you get it from? I ask because I went and ripped it from the US version, and noticed that there were very slight differences in the gradients, and some of the colors were different, but otherwise the logos were pixel-perfect matches. I'm curious to see if this is a subtle version difference, or if there is something else at work here.
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I just turned on PJ64, changed the graphics plugin to TR64, loaded Mischief Makers, and started dumping tiles from the the N64 logo. The game version is (U) [!] on PJ64 1.6
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Weird... I did the exact same thing, and yet we got two different results.
???
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Graphics Card? Image saving program? Just a different machine?
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Hmmm... now I have to wonder about the fidelity of my other rips...
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Oh come on now. I'm sure it's something simple, like the machine it was ripped on. My computer is really old.
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-Latest completed projects-
Super Bonk
It's all done and was really a lot easier then I thought it would be. The only tough map was the solar system map since everything moves. I've moved on to Star Ocean which is gigantic and hellish in comparison but I'm doing good.
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-Latest completed projects-
Star Ocean!
Ugh, what a monster. Glad that's behind me. Treasure Hunter G goes next.
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The first few areas of Treasure Hunter G are done and god damn it's a hard game to map. Had I tried to do this earlier I would never have had a chance. All maps require the use of bgmapper along with screenshots to dig out hidden spots the WTW code can't get you too. When there are animations they come in fancy layers that require multiple unique codes to freeze. There are battlefields artfully hidden in every area and the background black melts into the foreground black. For a cute little game it's just tough as nails.
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-Latest completed projects-
Power Soukoban
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-Latest completed projects-
Treasure Hunter G!
Ouch, this one was a hell of a project. I'm thrilled I got through it and amazed I'll have Live A Live done shortly too, phew I'm exhausted.
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-Latest completed projects-
Live A Live!
Holy crap, It's done. Another big rpg. Now I'm totally burnt. No more mapping for a while.
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Take your time and rest for a while. Considering how much work you've put out recently, you deserve some time off :).
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-Latest completed projects-
Albert Odyssey.
Just one last little project.
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I tried the first level for Zero the Kamikaze Squirrel as a difficulty assessment. Verdict: Insane Difficulty. Looks completely harmless, is in fact a complete hell raiser.
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I got a walk through walls code for Magic Knight Rayearth and I tested it out only to find it makes Treasure Hunter G look like a fluffy bunny difficulty wise. It may be impossible to map. I'll start on Pokemon soon. Maybe next week.
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Started in on Pokemon Black but ??? my Pokemon aren't gaining exp from battle. What the hell? I can't map this game if I can't build a tank.
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It's an anti-piracy measure (http://tcrf.net/Pokemon_Black#Anti-Piracy) in the game, probably triggered by the use of the camera code stuff. You'll just have to use even more codes to give yourself a bunch of Rare Candies or something. :P
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How clever of them. Oh well, rare candy code found, tanks made anyway. Mapping difficulty assessment tomorrow.
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-Latest completed projects-
Magic Knight Rayearth with absurd difficulty and cheating. Still waiting on an animation freeze code for Pokemon, can't really go forward without it.
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Bugs, bugs, bugs. After nearly completing SD3 I discover I more or less have to start over. Ardy and Alcahest have jumped from near zero difficulty to max. And Pokemon is just one roadblock after another. I want an easy project.
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It's nice to know someone here is actively mapping at least. There might be others but it's been too quiet lately for my taste. Of course, I myself have had no time to do any mapping of my own, which sucks.
I don't know about you, but projects that once seemed fast and easy now appear a lot more difficult and obstacle-ridden. I blame my increased standards for this (wanting to include enemies, keep everything on separate layers, etc). It seems that lately mapping just isn't as fun as it used to be :(.
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Also a good realistic set of difficulty assessments will tell you that most games are on the hard side. Most of the easy ones have already been done. Hah! But at least I finished the first Alcahest stage.
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-Latest completed projects-
Alcahest! An old favorite all mapped out. The Kirby people should make more RPGs.
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@TerraEsperZ
I'm still working on Suikoden 2 and it will take me a few more months to finish. However, I understand how you feel and agree completely with your post. High standards are definitely one factor that make projects more difficult and time-consuming. But I appreciate high quality maps and I'm probably not the only one.
Suikoden 1 maps took me about 5-6 months (2-3 hours per day) to finish and Suikoden 2 will take even longer. The sequel is a bit bigger than the first game, but the biggest reason it will take longer is that I wanted to create a few tools to help me map games. So hopefully my future projects will be easier (especially psx games) at least.
I don't think people realize how much work and time it can take to create a map (unless they have done it themselves) so I find it impressive how many maps some mappers like Trop, TerraEsperZ and many others manages to complete. So big kudos to all contributors to vgmaps. :)
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The Ardylight Foot project has been canned as I would need whole new stacks of codes to get any further into it.
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-Latest completed projects-
Dual Orb 2.
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Well Trop do you want to take on another few projects? (sarcasim..) ; )
I've checked out some of the maps mentioned here. Not bad a Tall.
Cheers
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Actually yes. I've added Donkey Kong Country, Donkey Kong Country 3, and Kirby Nightmare in Dreamland to the list. Who knows if I'll ever get around to them though.
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-Latest completed projects-
Grandia soundtrack. Sort of.
The truth is someone else has already done this project, just not in MP3 or any other normal format. I have it about half done in WAV but it seems their rips are better quality, if unnamed. I'll be going back through the game checking to see if they missed anything and naming along the way. Once I'm done I should have every one of Grandia's almost 250 songs. So like with my other soundtracks if anyone's interested just tell me and I'll post it somewhere when I'm done.
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-Latest completed projects-
Phantom 2040.
Finally! The nightmare is over. So glad that hell is behind me.
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I don't know where that other thread went to, so I totally forgot about it :P
Thanks for the Phantom maps!
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-Latest completed projects-
Cyber Knight.
Really. It's been since April that I finished a project? Maybe I'm forgetting one or something. Oh, right, Casper. Well that wasn't much of a project.
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Good job Trop! Although we'll never have every game map in existence, we still have plenty done. Don't take on too much at once. It'll drive ya crazy!
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Should the "Galaxy" map of Cyber Knight really be at the end and not at the beginning? Just asking.
We may never have every game map in existence, but it could be possible to have every map on a particular platform. Unfortunately the popular consoles will have many more games to map and the less popular consoles might not have as many tools to map them with.
But in the first case, as there are no new NES and Super NES games being made - I'm talking official ones, of course - being the most popular consoles here, we may eventually get there. The NES atlas section has had some slow periods lately but, again, any progress, even if it's a map a year, is infinitely more than the rate of new NES games (which is zero). Of course, at that rate, it may take longer than our lifespans...
Sometimes I really wonder if I should make use of the Requests section of this board myself. I shy away from explicitly requesting things because I probably overthink how my requests will be received just because I'm the one running VGMaps. But I won't be running this forever. I'm not planning an exit anytime soon, but obviously in a hundred years these maps will be in someone else's hands - assuming anyone cares about these games for what would then be antique electronics. Might be nice to see particular maps completed before then, even if it means I have to ask (if I should even see that as a lowly/overbearing/touchy/awkward thing to do).
EDIT: I guess I did have my NES Game Atlas recreation topic (https://www.vgmaps.com/forums/index.php?topic=146.0) and a topic about a possible Super NES continuation (https://www.vgmaps.com/forums/index.php?topic=687.0), and the still-incomplete ones include a bulk request similar to those for the Game Boy (https://www.vgmaps.com/forums/index.php?topic=942.0), plus the Nintendo Power topic (https://www.vgmaps.com/forums/index.php?topic=1413.0). Hmmm. I guess I didn't think those were big deals because for the most part, they're popular-enough games that would get mapped eventually, even without my themed mass requests. I'm sure I have others that don't fall into those categories which I hesitate to ask about, hence my musing on that above.
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The Galaxy map is the world map so you can put it wherever.
I always wondered if at some point emulator technology would be able to make maps on its own. Something like an advanced feature building the whole level straight out of the code. Sure it would be extremely difficult to create such a thing since it would be like making a level editor on the spot for any game loaded. But I could see an advanced program writing the necessary code itself.
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A short while ago I saw a headline on GoNintendo linking to a YouTube video about some program that learns to play Game Boy games. I didn't watch it or read very much about it, but that's probably a step towards a self-mapping emulator program.
I guess it would first have to figure out the "rules" of a game, especially movement and where one can and can't go. Top-down RPGs and sidescrolling platformers are quite different, obviously, but either you would initially tell it what genre is or perhaps an AI could figure it out given enough fundamental information. I imagine some maps look different than you'd expect if it was just dumping images (palettes, or perhaps smaller unrelated areas are lumped together) so it would have to understand how everything is intended to look during normal play and how things should be intuitively connected and even labelled. There might be some creativity involved there. But hey, I heard of a computer program that learned to write its own computer game, so I suppose it's possible.
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I'd still take someone to make the initial program but I could still see it happening. Computers are getting so pro active now I'm sure they'll be genuinely scary in just a few years.
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-Latest completed projects-
Magical Vacation. *phew*
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So the translation of Dark Half came out and I'm more or less retiring from mapping. I'm announcing this so that anyone who wants to take anything off my to do list can, I'm effectively un-calling dibs on all of them. I intend to map a few more easy games and finish up with Dark Half so I can end on a nice RPG. The only reason I'm leaving the list at all is that I might want to map at least once or twice, who knows when, in the future and It's a convenient bookmark.
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Dark Half looks like an interesting isometric game. I think ill take on that project.
Trop what tools do you recommend I use to map it? Any walk through walls cheat code?
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*smacks forehead* I meant that Dark Law is the last project I'm going to do. I just finished Der Langrisser and Dark Law is next. Of course if you want to race too see who can map it first... I did Power of the Hired and Der Langrisser from start to finish just in the past three days so I could probably get Dark Law done from start to finish by next Monday if I went full tilt, although I hadn't intended too. I'm not doing any mapping for the rest of today though. Everything I found for mapping Power of the Hired, Der Langrisser, and Dark Half was and still is up at https://tcrf.net/The_Cutting_Room_Floor
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Trop how did you get the full world map of Ys 5? what tool did you use? what emulator do you use?
Also are you sure you don't want do do Dark Half (not Dark Law) and will you finish Energy Breaker?
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Yes, yes, I meant Dark Half. And it's already kicking my ass. It's full of fancy graphic tricks that I now have to learn to capture. But it's going OK so far.
As for Ys 5 I used BGMapper. Go here: http://pikensoft.com/
And download and read about the BGMapper tool you find there. BGMapper is great for sucking hidden or distorted graphics out of lots of SNES games. If a game looks like it's using a graphic trick BGMapper can usually show what's really going on.
Energy Breaker mapping is what I'd call bizarre difficulty. The over all mapping is easy but applying all the graphic layers and arranging the rooms gets really complicated real fast. You'll find yourself reworking the same spot over and over. I'd love to go back to it but it's just to huge a project.
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would you say those games (dark half, energy breaker) are as big or bigger and more complex than landstalker?
As for BGmapper I had dificulty with it (too much of a hasal). I was wondering if it could help me with the cave stage in snes Popfulmail.
I don't know. should I continue withe popfulmail even though no one is going to translate it (same hacking difficulty as Ys5) and ladystalker, I stopped because I cant fined or make a cheat code to walk through walls.
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About the same size overall but MUCH more complex. Both Dark Half and Energy Breaker use tons of graphic tricks. One of my favorite in Dark Half so far is random ambiance. Things like torches or pools of water move independently of each other or background animations.
BGMapper is one of the easiest tools to use, you won't get far if you can't make it work. I ripped the Popful Mail world map in one shot using BGMapper, although for some reason George s is getting the credit for it. The rest of Popful Mail can't be done in BGMapper though and a walk through walls code won't help you with a platformer unless you're character can also fly. What you need are camera control codes like this 7E064C40 to let you see around walls.
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You did the popful mail world map! I found that on line years ago but did not know who it was from. sorry about that I'll ask JonLeung to give you credit for it then, OK.
I'll try again with BGMapper on Lady Stalker world map. Popful mail cave stage has this circle around mail and every thing out of the circle is dark. any way of getting around that. I mean is there a way to illuminate the whole screen? As for a Lady Stalker walk through walls
cheat code, I'll ask my bro for help, see if he can figure it out. I hope those two games get translated some day. Would fully mapping them inspire anyone to do that?
As for dark half and energy breaker your right about that the main difficulty would be the arranging the rooms. Most of my time in landstaslker and other large games was connecting the areas together. You want to make it easy to follow but also preserve its look without clustering the map sectors with overlay, lines and labels.
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Yes you would need a graphics manipulation code to fix the dark circle. I still don't know how I'll set up Dark Half overall, it's quite unique.
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It's great to see you take up Dark Half, Trop. I still have that game in a drawer somewhere around here, waiting for the day when I'll actually sit down and play it from beginning to end. I think I only ever got as far as the second day.
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You know what screw Dark Half. It's more work then I want to do. You can have it GHS.
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OK I'll try to map it with whatever free time I have but without a walk through walls code it wont be as good as landstalker.
Trop, are you ever going to finish Monstania?
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For Dark Half use this code C0047A80. The hold A and press X.
https://tcrf.net/Dark_Half
No I'll never finish Monstania.
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the code did not work. I'm using zsnes.
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Put in the code then reset the game. With the code running from the start it should work.
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I see what you mean Trop about it being more work, but I'm still going to try to map it.
What do you think about these for starters?
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They're great. It's good that you're noting the hidden houses on the world map. That free movement codes is great for breaking cut scenes isn't it. Things like the evil throne room may be difficult though. Unless you want to completely remove the layer that's garbling pixels you'll have to use some very complicated codes.
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Dark half is coming along fine, but the game is a little hard to play. (needed a walk-through)
Also I will continue with Ladystalker and Popfulmail. My brother has made some zsnes cheat codes like walk-through walls in Ladystalker and to remove the dark circle in Popfulmail as well as other codes to help me map thoses two games.
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You're a mapper, if the game is hard you cheat. You're not there to play you're there to take it apart.
http://gamehacking.org/game/42633
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You're a mapper, if the game is hard you cheat. You're not there to play you're there to take it apart.
http://gamehacking.org/game/42633
Eh, I respectfully disagree. Most of my mapping projects were actually legitimate playthroughs (aside from those that didn't take only half an hour), just with an element of mapping for areas. Like Pokemon Gold/Silver - I ran a solo-Pokemon, no-shops challenge run with my Cyndaquil. It's a lot easier to motivate yourself to do it, anyways, if you have fun while doing the whole thing rather than just the mapping bits.
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*snerk* seriously? When I did DKC2 I had two stacks of codes to control the camera angle and bg animations alone. Then I still had to carefully manipulate character position, status, and collisions. Mapping nice flat RPG's that don't fight back is just fine, but try getting shots of all the little off screen areas in most platformers without spontaneously dying. Take my most recent stuff with Kirby Super Star: look at the red and blue cave walls in Dyna Blade 3 that are normally always off screen and tell me how I did that.
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Well, sor-ry if I felt like I should enjoy both playing and mapping the game then. >_>
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I think what is really being said is that you shouldn't have to feel like you are limited to what is normally visible in-game during normal gameplay. For example, take a look at my Death Mountain (East) map (https://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/SuperNES/LegendOfZelda-ALinkToThePast-LightWorld-DeathMountain(East).png) from The Legend Of Zelda: A Link To The Past (https://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/SuperNES/index.htm#LegendOfZeldaALinkToThePast). I would have a square map with a chunk taken out of it if I was only capturing it with no additional tools or methods.
I certainly don't think it's wrong to enjoy actually playing a game while mapping it (after all, that's what they're for), but for completion's sake it's not wrong to take extra steps. Using "cheat codes" may be wrong if you were playing against people or for setting records, but if it's to ensure a map is complete or to do it more efficiently, what's the harm?
KeyBlade999, it's great to enjoy what you do, and for doing it "legitimately", as you say, but within the context of mapping, Tropicon's "cheating" and disassembly approach isn't so horrible, is it?
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It's not that I disagree with the use of cheat codes; I've several times used them myself (freezing the animations on the world map in FFV, for instance, when I did it for GameFAQs). But it's more than he complained about having to do a bunch of work and then looked down on me for not doing the same. It's not like I haven't had my own troubles, sure, but there's usually an alternative way to do things that isn't a complete headache. I would rather have fun with the game and mapping it as opposed to shifting through chunks of code and experimenting. I mean, hell, I could always try to play Etrian Odyssey 2 Untold on an emulator, alter the code to get a top-down camera view, and take a bunch of screenshots like that, but many people are happy enough with my hand-drawn maps for the game, so why go through such needless trouble for a similar end result?
Granted, I look at maps more functionally than most people around here seem to (I recall a comment elsewhere about perfectionism and being pixel-perfect) - if it works, it works. Doesn't matter if it's hand-drawn or not; sure, it may be more pleasing to look at when it results from a ton of screenshots, but that's not necessarily what the user comes for, is it?
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Your half right Jon, there are areas that just aren't accessible without codes. My own Zelda 3 maps are like that. Just try to get the Lost woods in shade or fog without cheating. But what I also meant was no mapper in the world is so spectacular that they can effortlessly juggle playing the game and mapping it at the same time.
Also "chunks of code" mapping is in fact better. All these would have been impossible without code mapping:
https://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/N64/index.htm#LegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime
https://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/SuperNES/index.htm#DemonsCrest
https://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/SuperNES/index.htm#SuperMetroid
https://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/SuperNES/index.htm#SuperCastlevaniaIV
I also think most people would agree my non 3D maps for a 3D game, like Aidyn Chronicles, are garbage next to Peardians 3D maps of a 3D game, like Ocarina of Time, even though I made then over 3D models.
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I'm really hoping VGMaps never devolves into an elitist community where only one "correct" type of map is allowed. True, the forums have historically been mostly about mappers trying to be as screen-accurate as possible, but that doesn't mean that other types of maps shouldn't be accepted or encouraged.
I do think that if someone makes screenshot maps that are only adequate (missing backgrounds, no relationship between areas, extraneous player sprites all over, etc), those maps should be replaced if another mapper makes better maps all around. For one, they represent the game more accurately; and second, I think all the additional efforts are worth bringing attention to. Now hopefully, it should never come down to a competition to see between two map sets to see which is the most perfect and complete, but I think you can definitely tell between an average and an in-depth mapping work. I just don't want to see potential mappers turned away from the community just because they don't measure up to some arbitrary standards of skills and/or efforts. Everyone should be welcome.
Going back to the initial argument i.e. mapping while having fun playing VS mapping as a full-time job, as obsessed as I can be about accuracy, I can understand the appeal of the former. Sometimes I'll be mapping a number of games for the better part of a year before suddenly stopping everything because after months on end of trying to overcome various obstacles, I realize I'm not having fun anymore. I need games to just be (mostly) mindless fun from time to time or else I'll start hating them.
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If I had the mindset Terra I'd never get anything done. Sure games are fun to play but sometimes while mapping the show you their teeth. Hell, any 3D or mode7 mapping turns into "play for 15 seconds work for 15 minutes, repeat". Having played plenty of flash games and tons of hacks I get the feeling a lot of aspiring game designers also got started thinking the play was more important then the work, and then burnt out. In fact I was just looking at a thread at Metroid Construction where that exact thing happened. A newbe hacker was talking about all the hard work he had done over three weeks and one of the vets pointed that the average time spent on a hack was three years. And even though I've been doing this for more then a decade it still applies to me too. The next KirbySS map is going to be the great cave offensive and it's already like pulling teeth. It's going to take me weeks to complete. In fact for anyone who thinks it's so easy here: 1182-D405. That's the only code I'm using. No immortality for kirby, no special anything. Map it with me. There are plenty of other areas that I won't get to for a while.
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If I had the mindset Terra I'd never get anything done. Sure games are fun to play but sometimes while mapping the show you their teeth. Hell, any 3D or mode7 mapping turns into "play for 15 seconds work for 15 minutes, repeat". Having played plenty of flash games and tons of hacks I get the feeling a lot of aspiring game designers also got started thinking the play was more important then the work, and then burnt out. In fact I was just looking at a thread at Metroid Construction where that exact thing happened. A newbie hacker was talking about all the hard work he had done over three weeks and one of the vets pointed that the average time spent on a hack was three years.
I'm not trying to argue with you here. I was just offering a different opinion because this thread was turning a bit confrontational and I don't want VGMaps to get a reputation as an elitist site.
Also, by mindset, are you referring to the fact of not taking mapping seriously enough? I agree that creative projects need serious work to make it to the end but I don't think everyone has it in them to always succeed. It's easy to see someone else's finished work like a hack, a song or a map and, thinking that it's relatively easy to do, want to do the same only to quickly find themselves in over their head. There's a reason so few projects end up being finished, and it's not just that people aren't trying enough; some people just *can't* try enough beyond a point.
Despite what I said and what you might think based on it, I love mapping games. But I also know when to walk away (sometimes for years) when it becomes a real chore. I've gotten sick and depressed in the past after mapping for close to a year at a snail's pace and after a point, putting it aside wasn't so much a choice as a survival mechanism. You could have *paid* me to continue and I wouldn't have. That's how sick I was by that point. And I'll typically need a long period or rest (from that particular game, not all mapping) before I can come back to such a game. And when I do, years later, I'll typically finish it and do so much faster because I've gotten better in the mean time, and also because being sick of something is like being really sleepy; you can keep working but you'll get slower and slower and most of what you'll do will get of lower and lower quality.
Like I said, it's how I see things. If you can push forward beyond the point of feeling sick and still produce good work, then all the better for you. Just don't expect everyone to have your endurance.
And even though I've been doing this for more then a decade it still applies to me too. The next KirbySS map is going to be the great cave offensive and it's already like pulling teeth. It's going to take me weeks to complete. In fact for anyone who thinks it's so easy here: 1182-D405. That's the only code I'm using. No immortality for kirby, no special anything. Map it with me. There are plenty of other areas that I won't get to for a while.
You don't have to be so defensive you know. Anyone who's made quality maps knows how hard it can be and how long it can take.
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You're a mapper, if the game is hard you cheat. You're not there to play you're there to take it apart.
I do use a cheat. I needed a walk-through so I can pass the puzzles to get to a new area and to the next scenario.
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Despite what I said and what you might think based on it, I love mapping games. But I also know when to walk away (sometimes for years) when it becomes a real chore. I've gotten sick and depressed in the past after mapping for close to a year at a snail's pace and after a point, putting it aside wasn't so much a choice as a survival mechanism. You could have *paid* me to continue and I wouldn't have. That's how sick I was by that point. And I'll typically need a long period or rest (from that particular game, not all mapping) before I can come back to such a game. And when I do, years later, I'll typically finish it and do so much faster because I've gotten better in the mean time, and also because being sick of something is like being really sleepy; you can keep working but you'll get slower and slower and most of what you'll do will get of lower and lower quality.
Let's not get sick and depressed here, please. I would hate for this site to be responsible for the detriment of anyone's well-being.
Yes, mapping is a lot of work however you look at it. And more so for those who want to get every detail right, or go above and beyond with whatever else they can do to present them however they looks best to them. But that should all be fun and because you really want to do it. Don't let the mental stress wear away at your mind, body and soul. This is a web site that hosts maps for people who want to share and to see them. No one's paying you for them, and the world isn't going to end if maps aren't done a certain way or by a certain time. We'd all like to see and create certain maps, but I would hope you have a balance between mapping (which should be a hobby at most) and the rest of your life.
I know that sounds hypocritical (given ways I've been spending my time, especially recently but also overall) or preachily cliché, but seriously, while I thank you for sharing, Terra, I certainly would prefer not hear about sickness and depression brought about by all this. I mean, yeah, talking out issues is a really good thing, but I mean I'd rather that sickness and depression didn't happen in the first place because it is absolutely unnecessary.
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I should really point out that I didn't mean "sick and depressed" in the clinical sense, and I simply used those words to illustrate the intensity of how I felt. I didn't mean to suggest I was actually sick/depressed and in need of help, and I'm sorry if I came off as making light of such a situation.
I just think mapping should be fun. If your idea of fun is playing casually and taking screenshots as you go, then good. If you prefer to fight a game all the way barehanded because that's what motivates you, then great! Hard work isn't a problem in itself as long as there's still some fun throughout. When it becomes a chore though is when you should take a break.
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Sorry, sorry.
Here's a walkthrough but it's for Sega CD so it may not work:
http://alexandria.rpgclassics.com/Sega_CD/popfulmail/popfulmail_1.txt
There are some videos at GameFAQs that claim get through the cave area:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/575678-popful-mail/58988993
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almost finished with dark half. just need to cleanup the maps. should be uploaded by this month soon.
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Great, can't wait to see them.
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good article...Just a nice topic
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For it's 20th anniversary I'm doing Donkey Kong Country 3.
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-Latest completed projects-
Barbie Vacation Adventure
Gunple Gunman's Proof
Toys
Also Jon the SNES Gon are by me but you've got them listed by RyuMaster.
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-Latest completed projects-
Space Football One on One
Tony Meola's Sidekicks Soccer
I'm nearing completion on DKC3 and I discovered something. During the ending you see the cast of characters like in all DKC games, but in DKC3 they appear to be wandering around various levels. It turns out it's only 4 levels everybody is walking around in, 3 look just like they do in the game but the 4th doesn't. It's a recolor of Ropey Rumpus to make it look more like the other mountain levels, and unfortunately since I can't play it that's at least one map I can't get for the set.
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-Latest completed projects-
Donkey Kong Country 3
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Congratulations, that's another massive project under your belt!
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Thanks. This one was murder too. Every stage with water in it was it's own little hell to map. I thought about maybe doing DKC but halfway through this I was like Nope, nope, not gonna happen. But I'm glad I did it. Beautiful game.
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-Latest completed projects-
Bushi Seiryuuden
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Commissions are closed
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Cool! But I might suggest that maybe you make a separate topic about commissions on the "Map Requests" board. More intuitive for a requester to find it there than to come into this topic.
Only SNES, GB, and GBA? I assume GBC is meant to be there too? No NES or (1990s) PC?
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Yeah I meant GBC along with that. No NES since I'm just not experienced enough, and what experience I do have with PC has taught me it's a total crap shoot so none of that. Also I never meant to attract commissions through this site, just to people that stumbled onto my DA page. Part of my speech to any commissioner was going to be "So I'll post this here and at VGMaps". Only if they disagreed would I restrict the image to being up at whatever place they specified.
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I would hope no one would commission a map that wouldn't be on VGMaps!
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I don't really see that happening. The only scenario like that I can think of is if they want a "for my eyes only" deal. In which case I'd have to email it too them, and it would never appear anywhere online.
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Get any requests yet? Did LTIan pay for Road Runner's Death Valley Rally maps yet?
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Nope. I think because I already told him that the difficulty on road runner is huge. So the cost would be too. He might way to start with a simpler game. I should probably just do a difficulty assessment on all the loony toons games now.
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In retrospect I don't think I could make the money on commissions they would cost to create time and energy wise. Oh well.
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Just wanted to thank you again for the Phantom 2014 and SOS maps you made, without them I would have never in a million years finished those games.
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Thanks Ray. Glad I could help. :)
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No problem Trap :P