VGMaps

General Boards => Map Gab => Topic started by: TerraEsperZ on April 22, 2006, 05:10:20 PM



Title: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: TerraEsperZ on April 22, 2006, 05:10:20 PM
Well, for those just dropping in, things are going well mapping this, which is why I haven't really posted anything on the new board yet. I'm also waiting to see if this board has tags like the old one for images and links.



Progress so far:



Main Deck   : 99.9% (actual maps complete with and without special blocks; missing map title and final presentation)

Sector 1 SRX: 99.5% (actual map complete with blocks, not without)

Sector 2 TRO: 80.0%



I had a question for those familiar witht the GBA Metroid games, though I'm also looking for Revned's advice considering we often talked about little details like this when mapping the Oracle Zelda games.



Now, this game is almost entirely event based. As such, sometimes doors will become locked, trapping you in a room until you've defeated the boss inside. Now, for one-time events like a boss, I'm leaning toward putting a regular door on the inside of the room to show that once the boss is gone, you can travel freely in and out.



However, there are rooms where you will always be trapped since the enemies inside you need to kill always respawn once you leave. Should I put locked doors inside the room or not? Right now, I put regular doors but I'm open to suggestions.



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me


Title: RE: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: Revned on April 22, 2006, 05:47:32 PM
I'd put regular doors. Theoretically, before you enter the room that's what they'd look like. They only turn gray and lock you in when the boss spawns. It would be more intuitive, and strangely enough, I think it would be more accurate, even though you never see them like that. Just imagine you are mapping what the station looks like from a withdrawn perspective, not necessarily from within each of the rooms.


Title: RE: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: TerraEsperZ on April 22, 2006, 06:49:55 PM
Nice way to see it. So yet again, I had the right idea from the start, I just couldn't justify it. You're like my voice of reason Revned :D



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me


Title: RE: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: TerraEsperZ on April 22, 2006, 08:47:21 PM
For those who know me, I fully intend to concentrate on this project until it is finished (unlike my usual habit of switching project every few week).



As for the slow rate this is going, it's taking a bit longer than usual because I'm trying to make all the maps you'd ever need for the game. That means I'm making maps which don't show any of the special blocks and maps which show all of them. Plus, I'm also tracking all the major changes which happen to the stages as the game progresses (like a door being destroyed, a whole room which wrecked, etc). Plus, I've got a lot of family trouble to take care of which eats a lot of my time (basically, my godmother which I recently renewed contacts with got a shit load of problems with her mental health, her employers, the police, not to mention increasingly severe suicidal thoughts) as well as needing to put in some overtime after regular work hours and during the weekends.



In short, it's hell trying to balance everything. Still, I'm hoping to finally finish this game in the coming weeks.









---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me


Title: RE: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: TerraEsperZ on April 23, 2006, 03:56:17 PM
Update:



Sector 1 SRX: 99.9% (hence, practically finished)



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me


Title: RE: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: TerraEsperZ on April 23, 2006, 10:10:22 PM
Need advice on aesthetism this time. There is a set of rooms in Sector 2 TRO where the doors aren't aligned vertically between the rooms. Normally, everything lines up properly except for a few specifics rooms for no reason at all.



[img width= height=]http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/8386/inconsistentdoors3on.png[/img]



If I put the rooms together, the doors are offset vertically, which doesn't look really good, but isn't horrible either, and I prefer this to putting the right part aside with arrow between them. Any thoughts, especially Revned?



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me


Title: RE: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: TerraEsperZ on April 23, 2006, 10:11:17 PM
Okay, the inability to post images and/or links properly is really bothering me...



The image is at:

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/8386/inconsistentdoors3on.png



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me


Title: RE: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: Grizzly on April 24, 2006, 09:08:54 AM
oh, and how it's bothering me...

I was so happy when we had got the new Forum software with avatars, edits, images, links, smileys, message history, colours, Show-New-Posts function and more..

And I really do not understand why Jon has changed back to that primitive forum software. This forum is about a hobby that relies on beautiful images where every single coloured pixel sits where it belongs - so how can such a forum use a software without any type of images or colours? I so much criticized the first forums and now all my words have been for nothing because we get them back?

Sorry, but I really do not understand the advantages of this forum software.



And I want my clickable links with preview image back, I do not like having to overwrite my temporary storage everytime I want to comment on an image.

About your problem, Terra, I also prefer a version without arrows.



Title: RE: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: Revned on April 24, 2006, 09:45:56 AM
Well put. I can't stand forums that restrict basic functions to long time users only. What if someone new wants to post their new map for us to see? Why make it harder?



Terra, I'll take a look when I get home. These computers at school are so old I can hardly do anything.


Title: RE: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: TerraEsperZ on April 24, 2006, 09:48:35 AM
Well, you managed to echo all my thoughts on the subject. I wonder if we'll ever get the same ease of use that the previous board has for all the features you just mentionned.



As for the change itself, we in French have a great saying: "Qui choisit prend pire" which literally means "Who choses, picks worse".



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me


Title: RE: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: Revned on April 24, 2006, 01:21:23 PM
Hmm, that's a tricky one. Since the rooms have different palettes and really don't link anywhere except the doors, I'd separate them by at least a tile. They don't really look like they're supposed to go together. Either way is fine, I think, but here I'd go with arrows.


Title: RE: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: TerraEsperZ on April 24, 2006, 01:30:26 PM
After thinking about it all day, I'll probably leave it connected like that, since there's the possibility that such a situation might happen again in the future and there might not be room to leave any spacing between then.



The whole problem comes from that damn boss room. It doesn't seem to conform to the rules of all the other rooms so far (where each map 'square' represents a 240 x 160 pixels area). For example, the upper-left door is thicker than normal because the screen scrolls *left* for 1 tile after entering and I've had to add in 1 additional row of tiles at the bottom because it doesn't show in-game (but does in VBA's map browser, my life savior so far). I'm really hoping there aren't too many such cases in the rest of the game.



I remember something equally frustrating happening to the guys who mapped Zero Mission. In several parts of Chozodia, the room would often be larger by 1 tile in every direction so that when assembled, almost all the rooms overlapped with their neighbors by 1 tile.



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me


Title: RE: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: JonLeung on April 24, 2006, 04:46:19 PM
Grizzly Said:
oh, and how it's bothering me...

I was so happy when we had got the new Forum software with avatars, edits, images, links, smileys, message history, colours, Show-New-Posts function and more..

And I really do not understand why Jon has changed back to that primitive forum software. This forum is about a hobby that relies on beautiful images where every single coloured pixel sits where it belongs - so how can such a forum use a software without any type of images or colours? I so much criticized the first forums and now all my words have been for nothing because we get them back?

Sorry, but I really do not understand the advantages of this forum software.



And I want my clickable links with preview image back, I do not like having to overwrite my temporary storage everytime I want to comment on an image.

About your problem, Terra, I also prefer a version without arrows.


Avatars can be turned on/off.  Have you turned them on?  I thought I asked Inty to make that default.



As for edits/images/links, I still have to sort out how that'll work.  Most likely they will be buyable in the shop once I can depend on EXP and Gold to automatically update.  There's got to be incentive for people to come back and post every day, which I always felt was lacking once I liked earning Karma and Kudos on GameFAQs and LUE2.  To make up for the inconveniences of putting up with the last couple forums, regulars will likely get several items for free, or I'd give you gifts of major EXP/Gold so you can have the pleasure of buying them, and to show your status as true longtime posters.



As for colours, well, I don't mind it like this - I'd like a theme that matches the site even more but that may mean less colours.  I believe you can choose and edit your own themes, so you can add more colour if you like.



I also miss the "show new posts" but I like the "ten latest posts", which is pretty similar until the board gets busy, if it ever does.



It was not really my choice to change the forums to more primitive software, as I've explained, it's not really more primitive, and with Inty actually more comfortable with this software, he's actually here more often now and we can suggest more features and changes and we'd be more likely to see them implemented.



Unfortunately I have a lot of other priorities to get to (resolving issues with the host, clearing out my backlog of a month's worth of maps, choosing the May Map Of The Month, going to E3, and other real-life issues) that some particulars regarding the boards do really have to wait.


Title: RE: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: TerraEsperZ on April 24, 2006, 09:32:03 PM
Update (now with links to previews, which were downsized for Imageshack/prevent stealing):



Main Deck: 99.9%

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/9145/metroidfusionmaindeck5uj.png

(453 kb)



Sector 1 SRX: 99.9%

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/5126/metroidfusionsector1srx6jd.png

(313 kb)



Sector 2 TRO: 99.9%

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/9475/metroidfusionsector2tro7dv.png

(524 kb)



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me


Title: RE: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: TerraEsperZ on May 08, 2006, 12:58:38 PM
Well, despite restraining my computer use at home by a large amount, I still worked a bit on these maps yesterday evening. After encountering some severe difficulties in the way the game handles the various layers and how I was mapping it (namely, Sector 4 has a transparent water layer inserted *between* two layers I was putting together from the start), I've found that I have almost no choice but to switch to Paint Shop Pro for the final map assembly if I want to be able to play with the transparencies with ease.



It *is* a chore because I basically need to go back too all three maps I've done so far and re-map everything *again* but keeping what I call the back and middle layers separate, *plus* making a separate with only the various backgrounds. My hope is to come up with a simple file for each map that would include all the necessary info on separate layers, with the ability to turn on and off whatever I want.



So far, I'm hoping to do something like this:



-Layer 1: Background (parallax scrolling). It will make it easier to go back and realign any of it without having to recompose the whole thing.



-Layer 2: Back layer. It consists of the layer of stuff that is behind the sprites but doesn't use parallax scrolling.



-Layer 3: Middle layer. This is basically the stage layout, consisting mostly of the walls, floors and ceilings.



-Layer 4: Front layer. Will include special things like moving roots and door covers, and I will probably turn it on and off to show before/after conditions.



-Layer 5: Water layer (works best at 30% transparency)



-Layer 6: Lava / acid / cold layer (all at 50% transparency, so a single layer for them)



-Layer 7: Special blocks layer. I can thus have both the original map and all the information for the special blocks in the same file.



It's going slow of course, since I basically have to re-do everything *again*, but I'll make it somehow, one day.



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me


Title: RE: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: JonLeung on June 07, 2008, 02:30:30 PM
zerofighter and rocktyt have completed both Fusion and Zero Mission, which are up as of today.


Title: RE: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: TerraEsperZ on June 08, 2008, 10:12:10 AM
I so didn't want to go back to mapping this game, I'm glad to see that someone else did it instead. I *am* looking forward to see if I would have done things differently from them though ;)



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



Current projects: ?????? (Gen), Sonic The Hedgehog (Gen), Sonic CD (Sega CD), Mega Man Zero (GBA), Battletoads (NES), Bucky O'Hare (NES)


Title: RE: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: TerraEsperZ on June 09, 2008, 09:58:08 AM
After browsing through the maps, I've noticed a ton of missing special blocks, as well as some mistakes (like a repeated column of blocks in a few places, or a missing layer on a specific screen) and some door connections that don't really work to me.



I just might pursue this one day, if only for myself (I have no intention of stealing

zerofighter and rocktyt's place on VGMaps) because I feel I had a lot of ideas on how to do thing that to me feel better than this (and yes, I do realize how arrogant this makes me sound like, even though that's not my intention). I've mellowed a bit in my pursuit of accuracy and perfection since I've worked on this and I hopefully wouldn't go crazy because of the weird layers like last time.



(And nobody better whine that I'm not working on finishing this game and that game. I *need* variety to enjoy mapping damn it!)



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



Current projects: ?????? (Gen), Sonic The Hedgehog (Gen), Sonic CD (Sega CD), Mega Man Zero (GBA), Battletoads (NES), Bucky O'Hare (NES)


Title: RE: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: JonLeung on June 09, 2008, 09:04:16 PM
It took more than the weekend for me to PNGGauntlet all those Metroid Fusion and Metroid: Zero Mission maps.  o_0  They're all up now in optimized form.



Chozodia from Zero Mission took close to exactly five hours to optimize, and that was when it worked properly without freezing up, and on my work computer (which is faster than one of my home computers)!  I'm now using PNGGauntlet at work...hey, the computer is on all the time anyway, why not have it do some work?  This will buy me a whole 168 hours more of optimizing each week!  :D



Which would be handy if you let rocktyt and zerofighter know of whatever errors you find and if they correct them and I have to do more optimizing on them again...


Title: RE: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: rocktyt on June 09, 2008, 10:39:40 PM
I'm looking forward to what TerraEsperZ made.





that fusion map was mainly done by zerofighter and I just did some part, I don't know the details when he's doing.





and that of zeromission was kept, I could take them out if necessary


Title: RE: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: marioman on June 10, 2008, 04:19:37 AM
You two did good job on those maps by the way.  I am still looking over them myself.


Title: RE: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: TerraEsperZ on June 10, 2008, 08:59:57 AM
Welcome to VGMaps by the way Rocktyt :). Hope my previous post didn't give you the wrong impression about me. It's just that Metroid Fusion is one of my oldest mapping project, and even though I knew full well that someone was bound to finish mapping it before me (because I'm mapping so many things at the same time), it's still a bit hard to accept. So yeah, I'm a tiny bit bitter ;).



The very linear nature of the game made me want to  make maps that would showcase both how most of the sections looked "before" and "after" major events,   and the graphics made me want to have maps both with and without the various special blocks. I'm still hoping to do all that. Someday. Within this decade. I hope :(. Maybe if a level editor exists and is even partially usable, that would make my work much easier. Anyway, like I said earlier, there's no competition. I'll try and make a list of the little mistakes I found; they'll only cover a few sectors though because that's all I ever managed to fully map.



On the same topic, I'm curious to know if you mapped using screenshots taken in VBA or if you used a level editor. Getting rid of the background layer wasted a lot of my times and I'd like to know if you've found shortcuts in dealing with this. Most of the time, I had to use Visualboy Advance's Map Browser to assemble the various foreground layers, figure out what to remove to allow the background to show through and reassemble everything together.



Anyway, hope to hear again from you. I'm not a big team mapper (except for once with Revned) but I'd be fun to hear from a mapper having worked on the same game as me :).



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



Current projects: Ristar-The Shooting Star (Gen), Sonic The Hedgehog (Gen), Sonic CD (Sega CD), Mega Man Zero (GBA), Battletoads (NES), Bucky O'Hare (NES)


Title: RE: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: rocktyt on June 10, 2008, 11:20:29 AM
I've also found several mistakes in the fusion map, and I told zerofighter to correct. however i haven't checked them carefully...

you've seen that those bricks of super bomb is missing and this is zerofighter's idea. He took every room after a super bomb, so many bricks were missing, and I followed this in the zeromission map. I do realised that not so good but maybe you can give some advice



The tools I used are only VBA and photoshop, I also wish I could have an editor, e.g. HyruleMagic



Now zerofighter is doing the Aria of Sorrow, maybe...   and I'm not doing any mapping at present.


Title: RE: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: JonLeung on June 10, 2008, 11:42:10 AM
Since you guys like Metroid games, and apparently Castlevania, maybe you and zerofighter could give the stagnant Castlevania: Symphony Of The Night project a much-needed boost...  :D  Maybe?


Title: RE: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: TerraEsperZ on June 10, 2008, 01:22:38 PM
Playstation emulation is just too much of a hassle to do properly and isn't worth the trouble personally. Not when I have so many other games to map first :P



As for an editor, I just checked and there is one called Zero Fusion that hopefully will come out in the next few months.



As for the bricks, they can be tough to map, especially since so many of them are hidden. The super bomb thing explains why there were so many missing 'bomb' and 'crumble' blocks. I can't really offer any advice for that though, aside from taking note of which block are destroyed by a super bomb and then trying to discover what sort of blocks they were.



Also, it's nice to see that Aria will also get done soon. That's another long lost project of mine I can cross off my list; I once had the ambition of mapping all three GBA Castlevania games, and would no doubt have been finished by now if I had kept my efforts on them. The one I was furthest along was Harmony Of Dissonance, and through a hilarious misunderstanding, both me and Zeric were mapping it at the same time. I had agreed on letting him map it because he called it by its Japanese name and I was convinced he was talking about Aria Of Sorrow. Eventually though, my progress slowed down, Zeric finished his and they got posted to much praise.



If I ever get off my ass and finish Sonic CD, maybe I'll finally have maps from a high profile game posted on the site.



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



Current projects: Ristar-The Shooting Star (Gen), Sonic The Hedgehog (Gen), Sonic CD (Sega CD), Mega Man Zero (GBA), Battletoads (NES), Bucky O'Hare (NES)


Title: RE: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: Revned on June 10, 2008, 04:07:50 PM
JonLeung Said:
Since you guys like Metroid games, and apparently Castlevania, maybe you and zerofighter could give the stagnant Castlevania: Symphony Of The Night project a much-needed boost...  :D  Maybe?

It's pretty much my project now, as no one else has mapped since the first month or two. It's more than halfway done as far as initial mapping, but then I'll have to go back through and add in items. And do something with the difficult backgrounds. That, and there are several mistakes in Ed/Wileee's oldest maps that will be difficult to correct without remapping. One of these days... *sigh*



... Anyway, great job, Rockyt. I was shocked when both of these complete map set showed up on the same day. They look great, and I'm sure TerraEsperZ won't hesitate to point out every little mistake so that you can polish them. Jon had better give you and Zerofighter Maps of the Month...


Title: RE: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: Revned on June 10, 2008, 04:16:47 PM
I hate this forum software. *Intentional double post*


Title: RE: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: marioman on June 10, 2008, 06:05:01 PM
TerraEsperZ said:

As for an editor, I just checked and there is one called Zero Fusion that hopefully will come out in the next few months.


There is one called Zero Fission that is supposed to be good.  It is being reprogrammed under the name Double Helix.  More info here.


Title: RE: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: TerraEsperZ on June 10, 2008, 06:20:28 PM
Sorry, I recalled the name from memory and got it wrong; I meant Zero Fission. I knew about Double Helix, but I wasn't sure which was an evolution of which.



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



Current projects: Ristar-The Shooting Star (Gen), Sonic The Hedgehog (Gen), Sonic CD (Sega CD), Mega Man Zero (GBA), Battletoads (NES), Bucky O'Hare (NES)


Title: RE: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: marioman on June 10, 2008, 06:22:25 PM
I believe that both are available for download by the way.


Title: RE: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: TerraEsperZ on June 10, 2008, 06:33:01 PM
Ristar is a pet project I've been aiming to do for years, but the ripples in the underwater levels proved impossible to remove in the past, in addition to all the parts of the maps that were inaccessible before. Fortunately, a combination of an imperfect but still very useful level editor (Feel) and a recently published prototype rom with a Debug Mode that allows moving anywhere in the levels have solved these. I've already mapped everything up to Round 3-2, Under Factory, which I'm currently finishing, and I'm hoping to be done sometimes next month at the latest.



By the way, thank god JonLeung isn't anal about staying on topic :).



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



Current projects: Ristar-The Shooting Star (Gen), Sonic The Hedgehog (Gen), Sonic CD (Sega CD), Mega Man Zero (GBA), Battletoads (NES), Bucky O'Hare (NES)


Title: RE: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: Revned on June 10, 2008, 07:04:47 PM
It's your topic, do what you want ;-)


Title: RE: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: JonLeung on June 10, 2008, 08:18:38 PM
HEY GET BACK ON TOPIC ARRGGH BLARGG


Title: RE: Metroid Fusion (GBA)
Post by: rocktyt on June 12, 2008, 10:04:43 AM
I've seen someone made symphony of night castle A, maybe you know him--zggzdydp