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General Boards => Map Gab => Topic started by: JonLeung on December 05, 2006, 09:23:48 AM



Title: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on December 05, 2006, 09:23:48 AM
EDIT: As of Dec. 17, 2007, I've decided to do all of this myself.  :P.


EDIT: The project is continuing, but will not be released until April 2008.


EDIT: The project is The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours, our imagining of what the third Oracle GBC game would be had it been completed and released.  If you are new here, you may want to skip down to here.


I think it's already time to start brainstorming ideas for the April Fools' Maps Of The Month for 2007.



Like I've said, I'm happy with how this year's Mega Man Solid X: Guns Of The Mavericks turned out in the end.  We managed to get it done on time and bustin98 provided awesome artwork.  It got a decent amount of exposure.



However, I could tell that the mappers weren't enthused as much as they could've been, and I recall that a couple mappers hadn't played a Mega Man X game and a couple hadn't played a Metal Gear Solid game so there was a bit of a curve in even learning what my vision for the project was.  I think we only ended up with less than two months of actual working time.  (I could be wrong about that figure but I'm sure we didn't start it until 2006 had started and that I felt the pressure of time.)



So seeing as how that still worked out in the end, imagine how much greater a project would be if it wasn't rushed, more thought out, and with more enthusiasm and understanding from the participants.



But I don't currently have any ideas.  Nothing that good, anyway.  Like I said in the "mascot" topic, I would want to introduce him in a fake game, but next year is probably not the time for a mascot yet.  Maybe not ever.  Anyway, if someone has some ideas, we could toss them around here.  When things get serious I'll move this topic into hiding.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on December 05, 2006, 08:37:05 PM
Metroidvania



Dracula has done it again. This time he has enlisted the help of the Space Pirates to further his evil plans. Join Samus Aran and Simon Belmont XLII as they battle metroids and zombies to save the universe.



The only problem here is that I've never played a Castlevania game for more than 5 minutes. >.>

---

Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on December 09, 2006, 08:23:39 AM
Yeah, plus considering the detail involved in Metroid and Castlevania games, I think it'll be easy for it to not look right.  Though a Castlevania 20XX thing did cross my mind earlier, though I'm not sure why.  I think we had enough of Mega Man, and we certainly don't want to do two Mega Man crossovers in a row.  I'm hesitant about another crossover too, but then again it depends on the properties and how easily they'd mix.



We've done one remake and one crossover.  The only other option is an original game.  Though it'd have to be based on something or interesting enough on its own for there to be a real joke to it.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on December 09, 2006, 04:54:06 PM
Hide & Seek



Now you can play your favorite childhood game without ever leaving the comfort of your DS! Explore the mansions based on the game creators' houses (read: us) to find your hiding buddies. With online play, a built-in level editor, and multiple gameplay modes, how can you lose?

---

Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: Revned on December 09, 2006, 06:16:58 PM
Personally, I don't like the idea of making and original game. The attraction of the previous two has been the familiarity of the games, while making a new game altogether wouldn't be very cool. I would just see it and think it was another of the dozens of games on this site I've never heard of.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on December 09, 2006, 09:24:12 PM
True.  Like I said, it'd have to be based on something.  I probably meant something like adding a new game to an existing franchise.  Like a Mario game, for, say, the Game Boy Color, similar to Super Mario Bros. 3 with all new suits and obstacles, and we'd call it Super Mario Bros. 4 or something.



Hmmm, maybe not a bad idea.  Except that might take a lot of work, I mean, Super Mario Bros. 3 and Super Mario World both have dozens of stages each...  :/


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on December 09, 2006, 11:09:59 PM
Rockman 4 SNES



JonLeung managed to stumble across this game at an unidentifiable pawn shop while on a business trip to Japan. It offers a glimpse as to what the series could have been if Capcom wasn't so lazy back in '91. Despite it's name, he found that it differs wildly from the Mega Man 4 we know and love: different bosses; different weapons; different stages; a final boss that is not Dr. Wily; liberal use of Mode 7; et cetera. He decided to dump it and have his loyal legion of sla... er,  mappers show it to the world.



I'm just throwing around random ideas. >.>

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Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on December 11, 2006, 12:47:03 PM
A Mega Man game might be neat...everyone recognizes Mega Man gameplay (except the South Park creators, who apparently didn't know who Mega Man is and has a character with the same name on the show) and each mapper could design their own Robot Master.



Not a bad idea, however, I'm hesitant to do a Mega Man game as a joke two years in a row.  Maybe we could do it for April 2008?



Getting warmer, though, keep tossing out those ideas.  Anyone else have ideas?


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on December 11, 2006, 08:00:57 PM
I just found the perfect game.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Mystical_Seed_of_Courage



It was going to be the 3rd Oracle game, but it was canceled probably due to problems with game-linking features. It seems like the puzzle-gimmik would have been the time of day.

---

Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: Revned on December 11, 2006, 08:30:34 PM
Very interesting. I had almost forgotten about that one. I'd be willing to do a dungeon or two.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on December 11, 2006, 09:01:07 PM
Hmm, specific time of day?  I think if we were to try this, it would have to be called...I dunno...  "Oracle Of Day & Night"?  I dunno.  "Oracle Of Time" sounds too much like Ocarina Of Time or thematically like Oracle Of Ages.  Clumsy as "Oracle Of Day & Night" might be, it's better than the Mystical Seed Of Courage title, which I think would have fit better if Ages and Seasons had the original names of their Seeds Of Wisdom and Power like the Triforce pieces are named.



Could be a lot of work.  Then again, we do have the time.  And since Revned and TerraEsperZ did the Oracle games that did survive until completion, not to mention Revned's Awakening DX, we probably have more than enough resources.  It would be interesting for the person(s) involved in constructing a new overworld.



Thanks for the idea, RT 55J.  I'm not going to say "that's the one", but I do kind of like the idea.  We (or rather I and osrevad...kinda) did a Zelda game for April Fool's 2004 but this idea seems prime for an April Fool's joke.  But I have little time for mapping at all so it'd be much more important for a few more people to be interested enough.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: TerraEsperZ on December 11, 2006, 11:05:57 PM
Reminds me of that crazy dream project of mine to remake Zelda II: Adventures Of Link using the Game Boy Color sprites and style. Imagine constructing one giant overworld that integrated all those hidden side-scrolling sections, or approximations thereof. Man that would be sweet, but hardly possible even by several mappers.



If ever do an original game, we'll have to make it reasonable in size so that it can be finished in time.



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on December 12, 2006, 07:48:51 AM
About the name of the third Oracle game, I would suggest something like:



- Oracle of Time

- Oracle of Days

- Oracle of Hours

- Oracle of Risings

- Oracle of Dawning



Personally, I think that Nintendo would've went with time or days, but that is for you guys to decide.  



Also, keep in mind that Farore is called the Oracle of Secrets in the other Oracle games.  Also, as stated by the development name of the game, she is associated with the Triforce of Courage.  This information may help you came up with something better.



I kind of wish that this game would have been released.  I think that the overworld map would have been neat.  I liked the way that the games went from traveling across large time periods, as in Ages, to traveling across smaller time periods, as in Seasons.  The thing that would have made the series PERFECT would have been a day/night game.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on December 12, 2006, 07:55:54 AM
In response to Terra, this might be possible.  It should be able to draw more interest than the last project, which had like five people and ten stages to create.  bustin98 did the artwork, I did four stages, and the other three did two stages each.



This Zelda game might not be as difficult because:

a) we'll likely start this, or whatever we choose as the April Fool's project, earlier than we did this year

b) a Zelda game in particular should be able to get us more interest and hence, more mappers

c) we already have most of the resources we need, including everything from existing Zelda Game Boy Color games



Even if we only had five mappers, let's say everyone does two dungeons except maybe one person works on the overworld.  That would be enough.  The dungeons themselves can't be too hard to make, even though they're original ones...slap a bunch of rooms together, then edit the doors and room layouts.  We could figure out new obstacles and puzzles that work on the day/night dynamic and new items of our own design, but so much could be done with what we all know about Zelda puzzles (defeat all the enemies, use certain items in certain places, make it to the treasure chests with small keys inside, etc.).



The overworld might not be so bad either.  It could have places that are by default day or night, like the map for the overworld in Seasons.  And making two maps (one for day and one for night) could be as simple as taking the day map, darkening the palette, and editing some things to be more nocturnal, but the overall layout of things wouldn't ever change drastically.  The overworld should have areas thematically linked to what dungeons we brainstorm but it is feasible.  I would imagine building it in something like RPG Maker, if only because it'd be easy to use the grid and slap down tiles and spend more time and energy imagining the layout than measuring the placement.  We'd just have to be aware of what fits on a "screen" to have realistic layouts but that isn't really a problem for us here, I'd imagine.



"Oracle Of Hours" is better than "Oracle Of Day & Night", marioman.  Good suggestion!



I'm warming up to the idea, as you can tell.  Plus, unless someone comes up with a better idea within the next few weeks, we may have to go with this one, but I'm sure we'll enjoy this once we get into it.  It's not too difficult and it also allows for some creativity!



I also think it's likely to fool at least some people.  Even if not, it should still look really good.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on December 12, 2006, 10:19:39 AM
I did some brainstorming of possible dungeons.  The time element adds a lot more than I thought.



Hourglass Palace

-a desert dungeon; the floors are each laid out somewhat circular-like, with the top and bottom floors being larger than those nearer to the center floor, just like an hourglass

-the floors will switch from day to night: top-to-bottom will become bottom-to-top (stairs will change accordingly) and provide new puzzle elements (pits lead to different areas, shifting sand floors will reverse direction, etc.)



Clockwork Temple

-a mechanical dungeon; the dungeon is laid out like the face of a giant clock, and/or with smaller clocks within

-the minute hand serves as a walkable platform, which moves to face a different cardinal direction every fifteen minutes, providing access to different areas depending on the real-time clock (perhaps you'd drop down onto the center of the clock from a hole in the room above)

-a Spinner item, like that found in Twilight Princess (if you didn't know, it serves as a hover-top, a high-speed wall-wheel thing, and also as a gear for operating mechanical devices) would likely be the item here, which would give full control to the dungeon's clockwork and be used for mechanical puzzles in future dungeons



Vampire's Crypt

-a "dark" dungeon; the time of day affects the amount of light, but mostly night-themed

-nocturnal enemies (werewolves, bats, vampires), including the boss, who will fight differently depending on if it's day or night



Temple of Light

-a "light" dungeon; the time of day affects the amount of light, but mostly day-themed

-sunlight-based puzzles, perhaps the Mirror Shield could be here

-probably whatever puzzle elements are in the Boktai games



Beach Cave

-a water dungeon; the time of day affects the tide

-night time = high tide / day time = low tide (I know that's not how it works in real life but just go with it)

-water level puzzles like those found in various Zelda games



Flower Gardens

-a forest-like dungeon; the time of day affects the plants

-day time = giant flowers are open / night time = giant flowers are closed

-plant enemies like Deku Babas and Deku Shrubs?/Scrubs? act differently depending on day/night



That's already six possible dungeons!  What do you think?  And it's not like everything has to be time-related, the Ages and Seasons dungeons didn't require changes of them while in a dungeon...usually just to get in.  If memory serves, anyway.  So dungeons could even be simpler if you wanted.



So should we do LoZ:OoH?  Or should I quit thinking while I'm ahead?


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on December 13, 2006, 12:21:40 PM
Hello?  Anybody here?  >_<



Just throw out concerns, comments, anything.  If this doesn't work I want to know if we can fix it or what other projects, if any, to consider.



TerraEsperZ said:
It's definitely interesting, but it will require a great deal of work to appear in any way believable. By that, I mean that dungeons will need to seem "solvable" for example. Also, the difference between night and day will have to be more than merely aesthetic, and actually affect gameplay in some way. Plus, if we want to go the extra mile, we'll have to come up with at least a few original tiles, as well as original bosses requiring moderate GBC-style pixel drawing skills. All in all, a big challenge, but definitely interesting.


All of those concerns considered.  Or at least, I myself am ready for those eventualities.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: Revned on December 13, 2006, 01:44:35 PM
Well, the more I think about it the more work I think it would take. I wouldn't be likely to do a lot, I have other projects I'd rather work on. At this point, I think we should save this for another April. There hasn't been a lot of activity on the boards, so it would probably be a small team. 14 weeks with 3 or 4 people isn't enough.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on December 13, 2006, 02:10:39 PM
I like the idea.  Although I have no skills to contribute toward it.  The only recommendation that I have is that it probably shouldn't be too much like Boktai.  IMO, a day/night oracle game should resemble the others more than it does Boktai/Castlevania.  Good luck.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: TerraEsperZ on December 13, 2006, 03:10:57 PM
I'd be interested, but like Revned, there are way too many projects I'd prefer to finish instead.



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on December 13, 2006, 03:17:01 PM
I honestly think it would be substantially less work than MMSX:GotM.  A lot less.  If we decide to do this particular project (which becomes more likely if no better ideas come soon), however many of us there are, it should work.  Even with only, say, three people (geez, I hope not) it should be easier than MMSX:GotM.  There are some details to work out, certainly, we want things cohesive and realistic, but there are not as many particulars as in the last one.  Actually, perhaps it might work better with a small team, just as long as they were dedicated.



When I hit my Christmas break I'll try to churn out an original dungeon to see if it's as easy as I imagine it is.  Probably something like the Clockwork Temple that I proposed, which will include original tiles for the Spinner gear sockets and the Spinner rail tracks (and since as far as I know you guys haven't played Twilight Princess yet, you probably have no idea what I mean).



The more I talk about this, the more I like it, but I'm probably scaring you guys as I'm not feeling the good vibe returning.  But if that's really how you feel then I can't force anything upon you.  I hate to constantly compare to MMSX:GotM but I believe this should be an easier pill to swallow than that.



If it honestly turns out to be just me, I can live with that.  I did at least half the work or more on the last two, and I can see myself doing a lot on this one.  But if it is just me, expect me to prod some of you guys very often for feedback, since the surprise is already ruined for you guys anyway.  :P



And if Revned and Terra use "there are other projects to be worked on" as a reason (it IS valid), then I fully expect Castlevania: Symphony Of The Night, Castlevania: Harmony Of Dissonance, and Treasure Master all nice and complete before April!  :P  TREASURE MASTER!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: Revned on December 13, 2006, 03:45:39 PM
No, I really think it would be a lot more work if we wanted it to be convincing. People know Zelda, so they'll know right away when they look at the maps that they're just palette shifts unless we really make an effort to make new dungeons with completely new rooms and puzzles. Let's be realistic, if you put a lot of thought into each room, it might take 15 to 20 minutes total per room. Multiply that by about 35 for one dungeon, multiply that by 8 for all the dungeons, and you get 70 hours of work, not even considering the overworlds.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on December 13, 2006, 03:56:21 PM
At least it's not 70 hours explaining the concept.  :P  I question your estimate of time but I still think we spent more time total on MMSX:GotM.  I know it took me a sizeable fraction of that just doing the boss sprite edits!  And I made four stages.  I could've easily put in 70 hours alone for that, and a lot of that was conceptualizing.



Okay, I can see that this appeals to mostly just me at the moment.  Or rather that I'm the only one that thinks its doable.  But we still have until...let's say, Christmas is the deadline, to actually decide what the April Fool's project will be.  I don't want to lose what should be a VGMaps.com "tradition".



Look at me run off with RT 55J's idea like a psycho.  >_<



So then I pose the question: what kind of project do you think would be worth doing, and easy enough, or at least worth the challenge?


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on December 13, 2006, 07:46:58 PM
I personally think that OoH would be feasible and worth doing. AFAICT, the biggest problem is that two of our better mappers have other (and more important imo) projects to do. However, I'm convinced even a team of 4 mappers could do it. I might even be able to make a 'sample' map before Christmas.



...am I sounding overly optomistic.

---

Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on December 13, 2006, 08:09:36 PM
If by "two of the best mappers" you mean Terra and Revned, then I agree.  Now don't let it go to your head, guys.  :P



But perhaps they feel like they'd rather do something they think would be more appreciated, or that they enjoy doing more.  And that's fine, as they don't owe VGMaps.com anything.  If anything, it's the other way around.



Enough sucking up.  As a selfish web site owner, one of the reasons for hoping for a project that's big enough to be seen as a huge gaming hoax that will be remembered for more than a day is for an increase in site traffic.  And a project is the only time I dare give myself the Maps Of The Month honour.



I guess I'm already sold on this idea.  If by Christmas nothing better comes along, I'm going ahead with it, even if alone.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: TerraEsperZ on December 13, 2006, 08:43:26 PM
Okay, I'll bite. I actually really like the idea, but I don't want to feel trapped with having to do  a large amount of work in a short amount of time like you guys did last year. That's why I'll commit to at least one dungeon, *maybe* two, and we'll see about the overworld.



The overworld is really the major part of the project, and to me the most exciting to do but also the most difficult one. It needs to be interesting and varied with some logic to its layout.



Another thing to consider on the project is that all 3 sets of colored Game Boy maps so far have entirely different sets of colors. The colors in Link's Awakening DX are much paler than the other two, and even then, thanks to differences in the versions of the emulator used, Seasons' palette is brighter than Ages' which looks more solid. Getting some kind of unified color palette or color type will be tricky.



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: Revned on December 13, 2006, 10:03:39 PM
I feel kind of the same as Terra, I don't want to get in over my head. Count on me doing one dungeon and part of the overworld. I might do more once the ball is rolling, but we'll have to see.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on December 13, 2006, 10:21:56 PM
Awesome.  Thank you, thank you, thank you.  :D  I suppose we might as well start the ball rolling.  I'll figure out where to move this topic soon where it'll be hidden from most people.



Okay, here's what I was thinking.  We should start by figuring out the dungeons.  Then, based on the themes of the dungeons, we'd think up of what kind of area those dungeons would be in.  The overworld would be made up of those areas, of course.



Take a look at A Link To The Past's two worlds.  They are both essentially nine areas (though I have Death Mountain as two because of the way they are stored in memory, I guess), are those square areas are very distinct.  Yet in the overall world map, you see that there are natural progressions in between that blend the areas.  If that makes sense.  We could use a similar approach when constructing our world, whatever we call it.



The items acquired in the dungeons will determine the order of them, and also how they can be accessed.  The map should be made as a day map, then the night map would be a darkened map, but edited in several places for that nocturnal feel.



But first things first, the dungeons.  What do you think of my earlier suggestions?


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on December 14, 2006, 08:45:12 PM
For the most part, I think you ideas are pretty good. I wouldn't worry about overusing the day/night aspect, given the fact a day is much shorter than an age or season. The idea I'm most interested in the Beach Cave. With a some floodgates, you could make some pretty devious puzzles.



Here's another idea for a 'dungeon.'



Excavation Site



The Evil Empire-O-Death is excavating the buried remains of an ancient temple supposedly because an Unknown Power-O-Awesomeness lurks below and the Evil-Emporer-O-Death must have it. Play as Link as he sneaks around the camp, exploiting his infinite stamina to work around the workers' schedule.



The dungeon could have two levels; the ground and temple itself. It would probably be located off one side of the world map.



Potential items:

Shovel

Cloak of Invisibility



Boss:

Unknown Power-O-Awesomeness (obviously)

---

Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: Zeric on December 15, 2006, 12:09:27 AM
This sounds like fun and I would have liked to be on it, but I doubt I would be of any help. Good luck with the projct guys.



---

Current Projects: Akumajo Dracula (X6800) Wai Wai World (NES) Super Mario World (SNES)


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: mephea on December 15, 2006, 07:13:58 AM
just tell me what i can do and ill try my damndest to accomplish it.  I would like to actually be involved in this years joke :P  something that doesnt require the mastery of photoshop and mapping games with parallax backgrounds.  gimme something to do!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on December 15, 2006, 07:40:50 AM
RT 55J, to be honest, I don't think we want too much backstory behind an individual dungeon.  As with all Zelda games, there is typically a narrative that includes Link collecting something, one of several similar items, or a part of a larger object, which is at the end of each dungeon after defeating the boss.  And usually that's pretty much it.



Okay, maybe some dungeons do have at least some story now that I think about it, but consider that we're not really going to be able to tell such narratives easily through just maps.  If you (or whoever) wants to make an excavation site, I suppose you could have some NPCs (non-player characters) that look like they belong in such an area somewhere around or near the dungeon's entrance, but that's of course assuming that we decide to include NPCs on the overworld as well.



And an outside area has to "fit" in the overworld; I think it'd be confusing to have something like Zora's Domain in A Link To The Past considering this is a game that won't ever be played by someone.  But of course each dungeon must be in some area, so there will be some outside area to play around with.  That will likely be used for item-specific obstacles that suggest the "order" of the dungeons.



Before I hide away this topic I need to know who's involved so I can give them exclusive access (somehow...I'm still not sure).



I'm guessing the roster sits as follows:

Myself (doing a lot of stuff)

Revned (doing at least one dungeon, part of the overworld, and maybe more depending)

TerraEsperZ (doing at least one dungeon, interested in the overworld, and maybe more depending)

mephea (expressed keen interest to be involved)

RT 55J (this was his idea initially - and he is interested, but will he provide more than ideas?)



You guys can clarify your stance if you like, and it isn't set in stone anyway.  And even if RT 55J only wants to provide ideas, that's fine, and he'll be in on it too.



marioman says he doesn't have the skills to contribute (though when I get around to the projects page I should at least mention that he suggested the name, if we do decide to stick with Oracle Of Hours, that is)

Zeric says he won't (but he wishes us luck).



Did I miss anybody?



I was thinking about asking bustin98 for one specific thing in particular.  Is there anybody we need to recruit, or do you think this small enough number is good?


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on December 15, 2006, 09:05:16 AM
RT 55J (this was his idea initially - and he is interested, but will he provide more than ideas?)



I'll try. :P

---

Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on December 15, 2006, 10:43:14 AM
JonLeung said:



marioman says he doesn't have the skills to contribute (though when I get around to the projects page I should at least mention that he suggested the name, if we do decide to stick with Oracle Of Hours, that is)




No credit needed.  You guys are the ones doing all of the work.



I have been thinking about the name.  The other oracle games had more rustic-sounding names.  I mean, they could have just called them Oracle of  Years, Oracle of Months, etc.  Instead, they used Ages, Seasons, etc.  If we could find something more rustic, I think that it would be more realistic.  I am thinking about something like Oracle of Moments or something like that.  This may just be too picky, but it we can come up with something better, then let's by all means use it.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: TerraEsperZ on December 15, 2006, 03:39:57 PM
How about the Oracle of Light? You could come up with the basic concept that the big bad guy this time is trying to steal all the light from the region (whatever we end up naming it) because the Darkness will then grant him incredible powers of evil or something cheesy like that. Thus when it's daylight, the world is safer and more friendly while during the night, horrible things come out to play and even the land changes, being affected by the evil in the air...



Well, you get the idea.



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on December 15, 2006, 04:07:52 PM
TerraEsperZ Said:
How about the Oracle of Light? You could come up with the basic concept that the big bad guy this time is trying to steal all the light from the region (whatever we end up naming it) because the Darkness will then grant him incredible powers of evil or something cheesy like that. Thus when it's daylight, the world is safer and more friendly while during the night, horrible things come out to play and even the land changes, being affected by the evil in the air...



Well, you get the idea.


Yes, I get the idea.  I got it, in fact.  Almost a month ago.



That is, if you replace "steal all the light from the region" with "merge the Twilight Realm and Hyrule".



>_>



I wish words like "day" and "light" weren't so one-sided.  You can say "Seasons" instead of naming them all, and you can say "Ages" without saying "past and present".  (It's like how you can say "parents" or "siblings", but there's no easier way to say "uncles and aunts".  Or something.)



I like Hours still, or at least more than the others.  Besides the fact that "Hours" is simpler, calling Farore the Oracle Of Light sounds so much more "ultimate" than the other two, and if anyone were to be the Oracle of Light, it should be Nayru, as in (highlight to read spoilers) both Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, Zelda wields the Light Arrows.  Apparently wisdom relates to the light.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: Revned on December 15, 2006, 05:00:32 PM
I don't like either, frankly. Marioman is right, though, "hours" sounds too simple. I'll try to think of something else, but it's not very important at the moment.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: TerraEsperZ on December 15, 2006, 06:58:51 PM
Oh well, it was worth a try. To me, it was "Hours" that sounded nonsensical compared to "Seasons" and "Ages"; "Light", although too generic and already used quite a bit in the various Zelda games, was the only thing I could come up with that felt epic and could be related to the mechanics of day and night.



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: Revned on December 15, 2006, 07:04:20 PM
Yes, but as Jon said, it sounds a little too epic. It's on the right track, though.



Jon, you should probably hide this topic now that we know who's interested....


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on December 15, 2006, 07:05:51 PM
Oh, Revned, you didn't notice?  This topic is in a board all its own, which should be hidden to all except those who already expressed interest.



It definitely needs a name, and it most definitely has to be "Oracle Of _____", but it's something we can figure out later.



While we're talking about things that we can worry about later, I might as well show you the thing I was messing around with for fun on the first day that this idea came about.  I know it's unimportant right now, though ideally, if it could ever look right, I would like to include it as one of several "screenshots" for other Zelda web sites to help us perpetuate the joke:



User posted image



I'd held off on showing it because it is far from complete.  Looks like ass.  (The original image is here.)  But I still also wanted to wait until the topic was hidden to prevent any visual leaks.



I need to fix the outlining and Farore's face.  I can see that the palette will be a concern in this particular case.  It's 32 colors, I want the final image to be 16 colors or less, including Link (bustin98 would help here) and the background, just like the other Oracle character intros:



User posted imageUser posted image



As I said, it was a fun little thing, but it's not important at this point.



EDIT: Here's a 16-color version of the above...but the face still looks like crap, and if we can get one, a different picture of Link ought to be in there.  I just put him in there to see if it's feasible...luckily, Farore likes green too!



User posted image



So now that that's over with, let's get serious.



Dungeons.



My ideas are just a start, I don't mind if you don't like 'em as they are.  Should we go with those, change some up, etc.?  And what items should they have, since they will ultimately decide the order of them?



I really like having the Spinner as the item in a possible stage based on clockwork.  Then the next dungeon could be a mine or something that would have deteriorated rails near it, and the Spinner would ride along a place where the rail only remains on one side, making it a prerequisite for that dungeon.  Aside from the fact that I'm probably not explaining the Spinner very well, you get the idea.



Revned and Terra, if you could send me your save files for the Oracle games, that would be helpful.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on December 16, 2006, 07:46:01 PM
If you just remove the anti-aliasing I'm sure you can get the image down to 16 colors at most.

-

And now for the serious business.



The following dungeon themes are obligatory:

Water {Beach Cave)

Fire (Hourglass Palace (assuming it's in a volcano >.> ))

Light (Temple of Light

Dark (Vampire Crypt)

Plant (Flower Garden)

Time {Clockwork Dungeon)



As you can see, your ideas already cover the motifs.



Other possible themes include (but are not limited to):

Desert (Excavation Site)

Ice (???)



However, I am ignoring the fact that many dungeons in the GB games don't have any elemental theme outside of the name or location.



Also, two mini-dungeons are required: the Hero's Cave and final dungeon.



Should we make another thread for discussing this?

---

Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: TerraEsperZ on December 16, 2006, 08:19:33 PM
Well, obviously a Light dungeon would only be accessible during the day and a Dark one would only be accessible during the night. Since plants need sunlight, it too would be entered during the day.



I'm also thinking that during the night, the tides would lower the water level and uncover several areas along the coast (at least, I like the idea of having a coast at the bottom of the main map, or at least a section of it) and thus the Water dungeon would be accessible in this manner.



Regarding the elemental themes, they don't need to be mentioned in the game but they could act as guidelines for us as inspiration, especially for whatever artifacts Link would get after clearing each dungeon which would need to fit the theme of the game.



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on December 16, 2006, 08:33:39 PM
I hadn't had "elemental" themes in mind when I came up with those ideas, but now that you mentioned it, I guess they could work.  I really just wanted to somehow use day/night/time in many different ways for variety.



I had envisioned that the stage based on an hourglass (if we were to do one, obviously it's a challenge if it were to flip upside-down like I'd like) would be a desert "dungeon", because not only would the floors switch, but moving sand could reverse direction.  Of course that's just me thinking up crazy ideas.  Still, [time -> hourglass -> sand -> desert] is the line of reasoning.



I was thinking about giant flowers opening and closing, and when they're open, perhaps Link could walk over and jump on petals to reach a dungeon entrance (in addition to whatever else he should've gotten from the previous dungeon as a prerequisite).  Maybe I got that idea from Mario Party 6, the one with the day/night themes.



But for a possible beach dungeon entrance, I think it would be better to have the tides low in the day and high at night.  The tides are associated with the moon which is associated with the night.  (I know visibility of the moon doesn't increase its gravitational pull but just go with it.)  It's a little more logical to me this way.  But you're right...it'd be a good way to make a beach temple entrance accessible/inaccessible.



Remind me again, what were the items Link was collecting in Ages and Seasons?  I suppose if we want to think of a story and what Link's collecting, it'd be easy enough to add or change later, since it'd just be kept in a room after the boss.  I'm sure we're all versed well enough in the Zelda games to know the basics of the dungeons.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: TerraEsperZ on December 16, 2006, 09:27:54 PM
You're right, the tides being higher at night works better logically, but I just had this great picture in my head of a cave visible at the foot of a cliff under a full moon, I never even though about the attraction thing.



I think for variety, having both flowers opening and leaves as platforms would be neat. As an adverse effect, maybe have some big carnivorous plants open in daylight and block some passages, but they'd retract during the night.



As for what we collect, here they are in the order they are obtained.



Essences Of Time:



-Eternal Spirit

-Ancient Wood

-Echoing Howl

-Burning Flame

-Sacred Soil

-Lonely Peak

-Rolling Sea

-Falling Star



Essences Of Nature:



-Fertile Soil

-Gift of Time

-Bright Sun

-Soothing Rain

-Nurturing Warmth

-Blowing Wind

-Seed of Life

-Changing Seasons



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on December 16, 2006, 09:28:36 PM
In OoA Link collected the 'Essences of Time' (eg Eternal Spirit) to restore the Maku Tree's memory and in OoS he collected the 'Essences of Nature' (eg Bright Sun) for some stupid reason (probably involving trees). I think he should be collecting the 'Essences of the Soul' (eg Crimson Love or Sharp Instinct) this time around to restore somebody's sanity (like a tree).

---

Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on December 17, 2006, 08:54:25 AM
Good info.  For consistency and connection with the other Oracle games we'd probably be collecting something for some tree, exactly.  Probably a given, though.



I guess the story specifics, including these items, could be worked out as we go.  What we really need to figure out is what items (Link's tools, rather) go in the dungeons.  I guess we still need another idea for another dungeon, that is, assuming that we're going with all the current suggestions.  The tools determine the order of the dungeons and the possible puzzles...whoever makes the first dungeon isn't going to be making anything complex, and especially not with items obtained later.



There's got to be a hookshot in there!  I love the hookshot.  It's so BAD.



I'd like to compare the inventories in Ages and Seasons (I suppose I could check GameFAQs) to see what items are common to both, and which ones are unique.  If they have the same number of items (I'm guessing they do) then we should have the same number in our game.  However, there wouldn't be a Harp Of Ages/Rod Of Seasons type of item, if we were thinking that Nintendo would have put in a real-time clock in the cartridge.  Or do you think control of day and night should be controlled via an item?  I'm not sure now...but if the GBC games came out at about the same time as Pok?mon Gold/Silver (probably since the GBC didn't last very long) I wouldn't think it unreasonable for Nintendo to expect people to stay up to play games.  Besides, night and day probably change over at 6 AM and 6 PM.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: TerraEsperZ on December 17, 2006, 10:53:27 AM
Here's a list of the dungeon items:



Oracle Of Seasons:

------------------



-Seed Satchel (with Ember Seeds): Lets you carry seeds (lets you burn things and light braziers)

-Power Bracelet: Allows you to lift and throw things

-Roc's Feather: Allows you to jump

-Slingshot: Can shoot a seed of any kind in any of 4 directions

-Magnetic Gloves: Activates and switches polarity with each push of the button. Allows you either attract or push away magnetized balls and move Link in relation to magnetized pillars.

-Magic Boomerang: Has greater range than the regular boomerang and can be controlled while it flies

-Roc's Cape: Allows you to jump and glide farther than before

-Hyper Slingshot: Like the Slingshot but fires 3 seeds at the cost of 1



Oracle Of Ages:

---------------



-Power Bracelet: Allows you to lift and throw things

-Roc's Feather: Allows you to jump

-Seed Shooter: Can shoot a seed of any kind in any  of 8 directions

-Switch Hook: Works like a Hookshot but makes you and the object you grab switch place

-Cane of Somaria: Can create temporary blocks

-Mermaid Suit: Allows you to swim

-Switch Hook L2: A Switch Hook with greater range

-Power Glove: Lets you lift heavier things than the Power Bracelet



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on December 17, 2006, 11:33:40 AM
If you didn't see, I edited the above Farore picture post with an updated version of this fun thing to play with while I was thinking up some ideas.

User posted image

Getting there, but Farore's face needs work.  Okay, back to real thinking work.



So, what, the only items in both Oracle games are the Power Bracelet, Roc's Feather, as well as some kind of seed-propulsion device and a thing that changes ages/seasons, eh?  Both of them have two items that "upgrade", as well, it seems.



I had forgotten that there weren't many "classic" items in this one.  I guess then we'd be creating some of our own...  And looks like we may still want seeds?



And even if I didn't obsess over the number of a particular type of item, I guess we'd still need two upgradeable items, if it's because there's not enough room...


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on December 21, 2006, 12:57:38 PM
I'd held back on saying anything for a while because I wanted more input from you guys.



I felt that I would have been perceived as rather "bossy" throughout the Super Mario Bros. 3 and MMSX:GotM projects.  With SMB3 I felt like I was laying out all the rules (even if we did agree on most of them, but still) but ended up doing only a few "real" stages, and with MMSX:GotM I felt like I was just getting you guys to go along with an idea that I had.



And I gave the initial push (more like a shove) to get this project started.  I don't mind if I end up doing a lot of work like in the last April Fool's project, but I would MUCH rather this be "our" project.



Sure, someone should lay down some guidelines (after all, we want quality work here), but if I'm the one to do it again I want to feel like they're rules that we worked on together as opposed to me just saying "do this because I say so".



Am I making any sense?  Or am I just not that confident in how you perceived our varying amounts of work, enthusiasm, and overall satisfaction of the past projects?


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: Revned on December 21, 2006, 01:57:09 PM
Sorry, but I'm not going to help out with much of the planning. I'm rather busy. I'll just do the work after the guidelines are in place.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on December 21, 2006, 02:15:52 PM
That's fair, so long as I don't feel like I'm being bossy.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: Revned on December 21, 2006, 02:23:31 PM
Be as bossy as you want. It's your site and your project. I'm sure none of us will object to you putting in too much thought to the project.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on December 21, 2006, 03:04:43 PM
I suppose if you guys didn't want to participate, you wouldn't.  :)



Okay, just don't think that every project is necessarily mine, so people shouldn't be fearful of projects if they have anything against working with me.



(That reminds me, how's Symphony Of The Night coming?  Though I guess you should update us in your own thread about that.)


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: Revned on December 21, 2006, 06:03:39 PM
There isn't anything to update about.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on December 26, 2006, 03:59:50 PM
I've been busy with other VGMaps.com tweaks this Christmas break, so I haven't really gotten to work on this.  :(



I was thinking that for simplicity's sake, there really would be no point for a real-time clock, and we should only be concerned about day and night.  (We pretty much were anyway, but I will simplify my plans for the clockwork-themed dungeon.)  Then we may have an item for switching day and night, rather than depending on the player to be playing the game at the appropriate time.  This way too, areas could be "forced" into day or night rather than just having them blocked off by day-or-night obstacles.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on December 26, 2006, 06:03:15 PM
One day should be 24 minutes a la Majora's Mask. Time could be sped up/slowed down by an item.



Also, here's a set of rough guidelines.



General:

-No more than 4 colors per 8x8 tile

-No more than 16 colors per screen



Dungeons:

-Rooms are 15 blocks wide and 11 blocks tall

-For you own sanity, please don't have any floors bigger than 8x8 rooms



Overworld:

-Each screen is 10 by 8 blocks

---

Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on December 26, 2006, 06:15:03 PM
I'm pretty sure I counted out that rooms ought to be 8 x 10 tiles.  Or more accurately, "screens".  You can make rooms bigger than a screen, but you'd have to have the 8 x 10 tiled screens in consideration, also, there should be something (like a wall) in the corners of each of those screens, as while Link can move diagonally, he can't do so across screens.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: Revned on December 26, 2006, 09:47:13 PM
Rooms are indeed bigger than a screen. It was quite a pain to take at least four screenshots just to capture the entirety of a room.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on December 28, 2006, 06:48:15 PM
You're right, 11 x 15.  >_<



I guess we still need to figure out some items.



Since we'll pretty much want Roc's Feather in there, I'd say that should be an early dungeon's item.  Not necessarily the first, but definitely early enough.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on December 28, 2006, 08:05:12 PM
The Power Bracelet is also a given, as is the Seed Thrower Thingy. You seem to like the Spinner, so we might as well include it.



We already have four items. Awesome!

---

Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on December 29, 2006, 03:15:08 PM
TerraEsperZ, did you list the items obtained in those games in order?  Then, yes, the first three ought to be Roc's Feather, a seed-shooter of some kind, and then the Power Bracelet.  Not necessarily in that order, but perhaps that would be a good order to differentiate from the other two while following a similar sequence.



Perhaps I could check a FAQ but what non-dungeon items should we consider as well?  If we opted for a day/night switcher (which is what I'm leaning towards now) then we'll need that, of course.  What else?



I like the idea of jumping from open petal to open petal for the flowery/foresty stage, so that means that won't be the first stage since the Roc's Feather is a prerequisite.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on January 01, 2007, 04:15:34 PM
I can see why this isn't going and it's because everyone's probably expecting me to make a closer-to-definite list of the dungeons in order and their items.  I guess once we have that basic template it will be easier to move forward.  I'll try to get on that ASAP.



Plus, holidays never seem to have the free time you'd think you'd have - I for one did a lot of work but none of it was on this project.  Hopefully we'll get a start in January so that we're not as pressed for time as last year.



BTW, I think I asked Revned and TerraEsperZ this but saved game files for OoA and OoS would be helpful.  Does zophar.net have some?



EDIT: Yup, it does, never mind.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on January 01, 2007, 05:03:20 PM
I'm thinking "mole claws" would be great for digging through obstacles, a likely item for the foresty stage.



Anyway, I was looking at the inventories of OoS and OoA.  Does OoS have one less piece of equipment?  Is it because one of the dungeon items is the Mermaid Suit which falls into the second inventory screen as an automatic-equip item?  But that's in Ages.  I'm confused.



Oracle Of Ages:

User posted image



Oracle Of Seasons:

User posted image


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on January 03, 2007, 09:24:43 AM
OK, so I have done some more thinking about the name.  I have just about worn out my thesaurus trying to find a word that is synonymous with hours and sounds more like the other names.  Here are the synonyms of "time" from thesaurus.com:



age, allotment, bit, bout, chronology, clock, continuance, date, day, duration, epoch, era, eternity, extent, future, generation, go*, hour, infinity, instance, instant, interval, juncture, lastingness, life, life span, lifetime, moment, month, occasion, pace, past, point, present, season, second, shift, space, span, spell, stage, stint, stretch, tempo, term, ticks, tide, tour, trick, turn, week, while, year



I figure that I will post these to see if they provoke any ideas.  As you can see, hours, moments, and days are listed.  Also listed are age and season, so I would think that this is the right place to look.



Now, I was doing some more logical thinking to try and find the pattern in Ages/Seasons, and I may have at least narrowed it down a little.  Here is the scenarios that occur in the other games:



Ages:



-Link travels between the past and present.

-This travel would span years.

-A collection of years can be called an age.



Seasons:



-Link travels between the different seasons.  (This usage of seasons is weather related.)

-This travel would span months.

-A collection of months can be called a season. (This usage of season refers to a time period.)



Using this format and the thesaurus entry, there is only one entry that will make sense:



-Link travels between day and night.

-This travel would span hours.

-A collection of hours can be called a day.



Yes, that's right, Oracle of Days.  I know that I have kicking around quite a few candidates, but this one makes the most sense when some thought is put forth.  



What do you guys think?  I think that it sounds more like the other games than "hours" does.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on January 03, 2007, 10:17:15 AM
I guess we'll go with "Days" if the majority of us like it.  It's OUR project after all, not mine.  Or at least it will end up being a shared thing, so we (or most of us) will have to like the title.



However, count me out for "Days".  I see it as Link travelling between ages and between seasons, so "Hours" still makes more sense to me.  Especially since the dynamic is between night and day, not between this day and another day.  



(I guess the confusion arises by saying "day and night", where "day" alone can also mean a full cycle that includes the night.  You know, like City Mouse/Country Mouse...when cities are in countries, etc.  >_<)



You can continue thinking about that...I'll have the items and dungeons basically decided soon so we can do the work of assembling the maps.  The title is something to keep in mind, of course, but we don't need it right away or can change it easily down the line.



That said, my vote is still for "hours".


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on January 04, 2007, 05:19:22 AM
JonLeung said:



(I guess the confusion arises by saying "day and night", where "day" alone can also mean a full cycle that includes the night. You know, like City Mouse/Country Mouse...when cities are in countries, etc. >_<)




True, but the same ambiguity exists for "age" and "season".  The word "age" can be used to refer to how old something is (the person's age is...) or a time period (the Bronze Age).  Likewise, "season" can mean a period of time (football season) or a three month period that exhibits similar weather conditions (the season of winter).  So, if the issue is that "day" can mean daytime (the sun comes out during the day) and also mean a 24 hour span that includes daytime and nighttime (the event will happen in a couple of days), then that ambiguity is nothing new.



The thing about the name of the games is that the words are given in the plural.  This reduces the confusion a little.  There is no way that that the age of an object can be pluralized (the person?s ages are?), and, when referring to a season, usually it is not understood as multiple events (football seasons).  By the same token, there cannot be two consecutive daytimes (the sun comes out during the days).



Bottom line - I would not worry about the dual meaning of the word ?day? because the same issue exists with the other games.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on January 07, 2007, 12:53:44 PM
I did some more thinking about dungeons and items and this is what I came up with.



User posted image



Items:



-counting replacements, upgrades, and disregarding auto-equipment, Link has 15 items, same as in Oracle Of Ages)

-items I'm unsure of what they're called have square brackets ( [ ] ) on them



Staple equipment found in both other Oracle games:

User posted image -Sword

User posted image -Shield (will be replaced by Mirror Shield late in the game)

User posted image -Bombs

User posted image -Bombchus

User posted image -Boomerang

User posted image -Seed Satchel

User posted image -Shovel

User posted image -Biggoron's Sword

User posted image -Flute

User posted image -Zora's Flippers (second screen, auto-equip)



Dungeon items:

User posted image 1. Roc's Feather

User posted image X. [time manipulator]

User posted image 2. [seed shooter-type thing]

User posted image 3. Power Bracelet

User posted image 4. Mole Mitts

User posted image 5. Spinner

User posted image 6. [teleporting key thingy] (second screen, auto-equip)

 -allows Link to use teleporting tiles

User posted image 7. Mirror Shield

User posted image 8. Leever Drill (upgrade of Mole Mitts)



Dungeons:



EDIT: With the possible exception of the Hourglass Palace (which I will probably do myself), there will not be two versions (day/night) of the dungeons - just one.  The time of day can only be switched outside, and the dungeons will have something that will make them inaccessible in the other time of the day than what is intended.


1. ??? (don't know yet)

-requires: nothing

-found: Roc's Feather



2. Flower Gardens

-requires: Roc's Feather and [time manipulator] to switch to daytime (flower petals need to be jumped on to reach the entrance, dungeon is originally in a nighttime area)

-found: [seed shooter-type thing]

-a forest-like dungeon; the time of day affects the plants

-day time = giant flowers are open / night time = giant flowers are closed

-plant enemies like Deku Babas and Deku Scrubs act differently depending on day/night



3. Beach Cave

-requires: [seed-shooter-type thing] and daytime (perhaps something needs to be shot to open the path, and tides are low in the day)

-found: Power Bracelet

-a water dungeon; the time of day affects the tide

-night time = high tide / day time = low tide (that's not how it works in real life but just go with it)

-water level puzzles like those found in various Zelda games



4. Hourglass Palace

-requires: Power Bracelet (to lift something blocking the way)

-found: Mole Mitts

-a desert dungeon; the floors are each laid out somewhat circular-like, with the top and bottom floors being larger than those nearer to the center floor, just like an hourglass

-the floors will switch from day to night: top-to-bottom will become bottom-to-top (stairs will change accordingly) and provide new puzzle elements (pits lead to different areas, shifting sand floors will reverse direction, etc.)



5. Clock Tower

-requires: Mole Mitts (to dig through something blocking the way like sand or dirt, perhaps)

-found: Spinner

-a mechanical dungeon

-a Spinner item, like that found in Twilight Princess (if you didn't know, it serves as a hover-top, a high-speed wall-wheel thing, and also as a gear for operating mechanical devices) would be the item here, which would give full control to the dungeon's clockwork and be used for mechanical puzzles in future dungeons



6. Vampire's Crypt

-requires: Spinner (the crypt could be sealed with a mechanical door that requires a Spinner to turn its gears)

-found: [teleporting key thingy]

-a "dark" dungeon; the time of day affects the amount of light, but mostly night-themed

-nocturnal enemies (werewolves, bats, vampires), including the boss, who will fight differently depending on if it's day or night



7. Temple of Light

-requires: [teleporting key thingy] (no door, no entry except via a teleporter)

-found: Mirror Shield

-a "light" dungeon; the time of day affects the amount of light, but mostly day-themed

-sunlight-based puzzles, the Mirror Shield is found here and required for some of the puzzles

-probably whatever puzzle elements are in the Boktai games



8. Excavation Site

-requires: Mirror Shield (a light puzzle opens the ruins within)

-found: Leever Drill

-??? (description)

-Leever Drill is required for drilling through stone to solve this dungeon




---



So, we're probably almost ready to start, eh?  We just need to fill in a few blanks but we could probably start on some dungeons right away.  Unless anyone has any major objections to the items and dungeons so far...


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: Revned on January 07, 2007, 03:13:13 PM
I hate to do this to you, but I'm going to have to leave this project. To tell you the truth, I've lost interest. I'll look forward to seeing them if you guys manage to finish them, but I'm starting to feel pressure like I was last year. Maybe if the due date was farther out I'd feel differently, but I really don't think I'll be able to motivate myself to do this and focus on school at the same time. These require more thought than a straight mapping project like SotN, which interferes with my academic life less. I'm sorry, but I just can't force myself to take part in a project I've lost interest in like I did last year.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on January 07, 2007, 03:44:29 PM
Ouch.  :(



Well, that's sad to hear.  You'll get some recognition since we'll likely be gutting your maps for this.  (That reminds me, if I ever get around to that Projects page I should make mention of Geminiman who worked on the MMX game maps while we did last year's...)



I might as well keep your access here in case you do want to chime in with anything.



Anyway, I just realised how redundant both the shovel and the Mole Mitts are.  Though I was thinking that the Mole Mitts would break down barriers in your way, not ground that you walk over.  And to not be redundant with bombs, they'd have to be unbombable.



EDIT: DAMMIT!  Or, wait, is this a bad thing?  Something triggered in my memory about the Mole Mitts.  Apparently they are in Minish Cap!  That's why I was thinking of them!  They seemed so familiar.  Oh, well, we'll probably keep them.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: Revned on January 07, 2007, 05:34:22 PM
Alright, I'll keep watching your progress in case I change my mind.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on January 08, 2007, 07:55:33 AM
I've simplified the Clockwork Temple into the Clock Tower, which I guess I'll call dibs on.



And I hope TerraEsperZ doesn't step down too, and I will see about getting others involved since it's not too late for them to jump in.  I thought mephea was here...  I already PMed Grizzly, maybe I ought to email him instead.  Too bad osrevad's still gone for another year.  Zeric already opted out.  Oh, I guess I'll try KingKuros...he did over half of Super Mario Bros. 3...



Who else is capable and willing, do you think?


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on January 08, 2007, 09:11:48 PM
The Clock Tower sounds like a rip off of Castlevania tbqh.



The first dungeon could be a Ice dungeon. The water would freeze during the night and melt during the day. Most of the water would be shallow, but Roc's Feather could be used to jump across some of the deep parts.

---

Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on January 09, 2007, 07:59:21 AM
RT 55J Said:
The Clock Tower sounds like a rip off of Castlevania tbqh.



The first dungeon could be a Ice dungeon. The water would freeze during the night and melt during the day. Most of the water would be shallow, but Roc's Feather could be used to jump across some of the deep parts.

---

Dot? Dot. Dot!

I agree.  Vampires don't sound very Zelda-ish to me.  I think that the clock theme would be believable, but it would definitely seem like a Castlevania rip-off if you combined vampires AND a clock tower.



The ice level idea sounds good.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on January 09, 2007, 08:07:30 AM
For the Clock Tower, it would have lots of gears, but I wasn't thinking of jumping on pendulums or on the toothy parts of gears so I don't think it would look like any Castlevania clock tower, at least the way I was thinking of designing it.  It wouldn't even be like the clock in Majora's Mask, except maybe on the ouside.  Due to the nature of a Game Boy Zelda game, dungeons are more likely to be confused with each other than with something from another game, IMO.



And if not vampires, then how about Vires (the guys that split into two Keese when hit, they're very vampire-like) or some other nocturnal enemy.  Wizzrobe's Den?  Gibdo's Lair?  Or some kind of nocturnal theme, at least.



I had the same idea about a possible ice dungeon and was debating about it since it seems more like a seasonal thing.  :/  Is it covered in Seasons at all?



I emailed Grizzly and KingKuros to help out.  I admit I may have been biting more than I can chew when I blurted out that I would do this myself if I had to.  :/  I hope TerraEsperZ doesn't bail, and where is mephea?


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on January 09, 2007, 09:18:00 AM
There you go!  Use nocturnal Zelda enemies.  That would be much better.  



Actually, I would think that the Clock Tower would be OK as long as there aren't any Castlevania-looking enemies in it.



The ice in the level could be like the morning frost/dew.  That would be more day-themed than season-themed.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on January 11, 2007, 04:06:09 PM
Double post!  For I bear with me the Essences of Light:



1. Silver Moonbeam

2. Vivid Spectrum

3. Radiant Daybreak

4. Burning Flame

5. Shining Reflection

6. Warm Sunshine

7. Frozen Aurora

8. Glowing Prism



What do you think?  The story could be that the Maku Tree is wilting because it is trapped in darkness.  The Essences of Light could be used to revive it.



Feel free to make better suggestions.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on January 11, 2007, 04:21:05 PM
Triple post in the name of not being able to edit messages!



Burning Flame is already used as an Essence of Time.  I should've checked before I posted.  For the record, here are the other essences:



Essences of Time:



1. Eternal Spirit

2. Ancient Wood

3. Echoing Howl

4. Burning Flame

5. Sacred Soil

6. Bereft Peak

7. Rolling Sea

8. Falling Star



Essences of Nature:



1. Fertile Soil

2. Gift of Time

3. Bright Sun

4. Soothing Rain

5. Nurturing Warmth

6. Blowing Wind

7. Seed of Life

8. Changing Seasons



For the other Essence of Light, how about Fading Sunset?


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on January 11, 2007, 09:39:59 PM
Your "plot" is better than mine, marioman. We might as well use it.



Given the general lack of activity in this thread, I assume nobady opposes my Ice Dungeon idea. I'm thinking of making an OoT style bottle a prerequist for it. The shovel is practically redundant with the mole claws, so we could remove it to make room for the bottle.



As for your items, JonLueng, the only one I don't like is the [teleporting key thingy]. However, I can't really think of any good replacements given the locale (although a whip would be funny).



Also, if we don't get this project done on time we could just say "It's alpha."

---

Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on January 11, 2007, 10:15:41 PM
What would the bottle do for the Ice Dungeon?  Would it be like in the N64 games where you can get hot water to melt ice?  I guess it'd have to be where the ice isn't by the sunlight.



True, activity could be more here.  I make a daily effort to make a new random map thumbnail for the front page, but sometimes that takes up all of my free time on a weekday, so I may revise my daily routine and try to do a bit on this project each day instead.  Then we'll get somewhere.  I still think we can get this done in time; it's the initial hurdles of working things out and we're almost there.



I'm kinda disappointed that I haven't heard back from Grizzly, J.J. Maxx, and KingKuros, though.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on January 12, 2007, 10:53:09 AM
Another little observation - notice the pattern in the following data:



Prototype Name - Gameplay Type



Seed of Wisdom - Puzzle-based gameplay

Seed of Power - Action-based gameplay

Seed of Courage - ??? gameplay



I would think that the maps should at least slightly reflect some gameplay style.  I can't really think of a type of game where you would need courage, but I am sure that we could/should come up with something courage-related.  (Maybe strategy or side-quests?)



Just a thought.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on January 12, 2007, 11:24:05 AM
I wouldn't put too much effort into thinking up the details of side-quests - we're making maps, not building an actual game.  However, a couple small dungeonesque areas (both other games have them, I believe) shouldn't be too hard to make while we're on a roll (if we have time, that is - right now I'm concerned with the main dungeons) and the overworld could easily have a few NPCs in towns or scattered about the world that imply possible side-quests if Link were to talk with them.  The overworld could (and should) also have several caves, the type where Link would expect to find Pieces Of Heart or Rupees like in any other Zelda game, and those usually don't require being mapped.



marioman, do you think you can make the graphics for the essences you suggest?  We will likely use them.  They shouldn't be too difficult to make (see the screenshots of the inventories of the other two games for the correct size and colour limitations), and this way you can easily say that you contributed something to every dungeon, too!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on January 12, 2007, 08:14:30 PM
I wouldn't worry about side-quests or mini-dungeons. Maybe after we get a couple dungeons finished, but not now.



Also, I think I'll create a general dungeon topic to help get the ball rolling.



Prototype Name - Gameplay Type



Seed of Wisdom - Puzzle-based gameplay

Seed of Power - Action-based gameplay

Seed of Courage - ??? gameplay




Actizzle of Puzzion-based gameplay imo.

---

Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on January 12, 2007, 09:41:30 PM
Note: All of this is subject to change.



The Maku Tree is wilting because it is trapped in darkness. The Essences of Light must be gathered to revitalize it. Naturally, they're trapped in some neatly organized dungeons.



Dungeon items:

X. Bottle

1. Roc's Feather

X. [time manipulator]

2. [seed shooter-type thing]

3. Power Bracelet

4. Mole Mitts

5. Spinner

6. [teleporting key thingy] (second screen, auto-equip)

-allows Link to use teleporting tiles

7. Mirror Shield

8. Leever Drill (upgrade to Mole Mitts)



I doubt anybody would like the [teleporting key thingy]. Any alternatives?



Dungeons:



1. Ice Cavern

-requires: bottle

-found: Roc's Feather

-The sun could melt the ice and stuff during the day.



2. Flower Gardens

-requires: Roc's Feather and [time manipulator] to switch to daytime (flower petals need to be jumped on to reach the entrance, dungeon is originally in a nighttime area)

-found: [seed shooter-type thing]

-a forest-like dungeon; the time of day affects the plants

-day time = giant flowers are open / night time = giant flowers are closed

-plant enemies like Deku Babas and Deku Scrubs act differently depending on day/night



3. Beach Cave

-requires: [seed-shooter-type thing] and daytime (perhaps something needs to be shot to open the path, and tides are low in the day)

-found: Power Bracelet

-a water dungeon; the time of day affects the tide

-night time = high tide / day time = low tide (that's not how it works in real life but just go with it)

-water level puzzles like those found in various Zelda games



4. Hourglass Palace

-requires: Power Bracelet (to lift something blocking the way)

-found: Mole Mitts

-a desert dungeon; the floors are each laid out somewhat circular-like, with the top and bottom floors being larger than those nearer to the center floor, just like an hourglass

-the floors will switch from day to night: top-to-bottom will become bottom-to-top (stairs will change accordingly) and provide new puzzle elements (pits lead to different areas, shifting sand floors will reverse direction, etc.)



5. Clock Tower

-requires: Mole Mitts (to dig through something blocking the way like sand or dirt, perhaps)

-found: Spinner

-a mechanical dungeon

-a Spinner item, like that found in Twilight Princess (if you didn't know, it serves as a hover-top, a high-speed wall-wheel thing, and also as a gear for operating mechanical devices) would be the item here, which would give full control to the dungeon's clockwork and be used for mechanical puzzles in future dungeons



6. Vampire's Crypt

-requires: Spinner (the crypt could be sealed with a mechanical door that requires a Spinner to turn its gears)

-found: [teleporting key thingy]

-a "dark" dungeon; the time of day affects the amount of light, but mostly night-themed

-nocturnal enemies (werewolves, bats, vampires), including the boss, who will fight differently depending on if it's day or night



7. Temple of Light

-requires: [teleporting key thingy] (no door, no entry except via a teleporter)

-found: Mirror Shield

-a "light" dungeon; the time of day affects the amount of light, but mostly day-themed

-sunlight-based puzzles, the Mirror Shield is found here and required for some of the puzzles

-probably whatever puzzle elements are in the Boktai games



8. Excavation Site

-requires: Mirror Shield (a light puzzle opens the ruins within)

-found: Leever Drill

-Buried ruins of an ancient civilization. Rumor has it that an ultimate power is in there, so the bad-guy naturally wants it.

-Use your stealth powers to sneak around the workers

-Rumor has it that it's infested with snakes. Poor Indiana Jones...

-Leever Drill is required for drilling through stone to solve this dungeon



9. Hero's Cave

-For heroes only



10. Final Dungeon

-Has the final boss



Rough Guidelines:

-No more than 4 colors per 8x8 tile

-No more than 16 colors per screen (excluding sprites)

-Rooms are 15 blocks wide and 11 blocks tall

-For you own sanity, please don't have any floors bigger than 8x8 rooms



Design tips:

-Design the dungeon around a shape.

-Don't be afraid to copy puzzles from other games

-Plan your dungeon on paper.



I think the individual dungeons should have there own threads.



Any objections?

---

Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on January 12, 2007, 10:18:00 PM
I'm not so sure we need another topic for this.  I would much rather edit the first post of my topic when the plan is all fleshed out because once we have a definite plan the mappers can work at their own pace and we all know what we want to do with our dungeons.



Though to be fair, I do appreciate your enthusiasm and effort to push this through.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on January 12, 2007, 10:19:01 PM
Aren't the trees different in Ages and Seasons?  Shouldn't we have a new tree?


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on January 13, 2007, 07:15:36 AM
Be prepared for me to cover a lot of ground in one post.



The side-quests idea was just to give an example.  I knew that they wouldn't be easy to map, but is was an idea.  Maybe strategy elements would be more appropriate.  Or, better yet, maybe there should be lots of geographical challenges/hazards that need to be overcome.  That would be very visible in a map.



Yes, the Maku Trees are different in the games.



I would like to help with the graphics, but I have no spriting skills whatsoever (or basic art skills for that matter).  Furthermore, I definitely would not have the time to do so even if I had the skills.



I will be glad to contribute ideas, but I am afraid that that is about all I will be able to do.  I know that you need help with maps/graphics, but I have very little skills to offer other than helping with the planning.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on January 13, 2007, 11:16:01 PM
Okay, I really think we should rethink the Ice Dungeon for something more simpler.  Much simpler.



The first dungeon shouldn't have a prerequisite of a tool item.  Perhaps it could have something plot-dependent and a one-time use thing like a key (we have room for several on the second inventory screen, like how the other two games do).  The bottle in particular opens up too many item possibilities that it can hold (water, Faeries, potions, etc.) which whoever makes the overworld would rather not have to deal with.



The time mechanic can't be used here since the time manipulator should come AFTER the first dungeon.



Ice presents challenges that shouldn't be seen in a first dungeon...cracked ice that breaks and smooth ice that is slippery I wouldn't like to see so early.



And it still feels like a seasonal thing and there's no necessity for an elemental spectrum in a Zelda game.



I am not against the idea simply because it isn't mine, and I have nothing against whoever came up with it...I just think it could be A LOT simpler.



We could have the Blah-blah Ruins or the Shrine of Yaddayadda.  Nothing complex, just a run-of-the-mill Zelda dungeon is fine.



Granted, it's all in the hands of whoever makes the first stage.  Perhaps they could pull off a slightly-frosty stage well.  Whatever.  My next point is that the details to be worked out soon ought to be in the hands of the dungeon-makers; it's going to be hard if we over-define ourselves into a corner.  Dungeon-makers need some room to breathe!



I appreciate the flow of ideas but we need something soon.  I myself have been dallying and putting things off but I will start tomorrow morning with my Clock Tower.  As we start building things we will know what needs more thought.  Otherwise this will become stale.



It's past 11:00 PM at night, and I've had a tiring day.  I hope I'm not coming off as rude.  And I'm probably making a distinction between the idea-makers and the dungeon-makers that might be off-putting.  No, we certainly need both.  Maybe I'm just weary of all the brainstorming, and my mind's ready to switch gears and do some dungeon construction tomorrow.  (And gears may in fact be involved.)


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on January 14, 2007, 09:32:56 AM
As I said, I called dibs on the Clock Tower.

User posted image

I just wanted to show you how I started.  I took a room from Revned's Oracle Of Ages: Ancient Tomb B2F map, then reworked it, arranged the rooms, shaved the corners and changed the palette, and now I have the basic template for two or three of what I imagine would be a three-to-four-floor dungeon.



When moving tiles, I used Revned's Slicer/Splicer program to very easily isolate my errors.  I suppose you could use the same program to take this template for my Clock Tower and replace the individual tiles with other ones for a totally different looking dungeon template without more effort than necessary.



Also, this should be helpful for anyone (else?) making a dungeon after the Clock Tower, and perhaps the overworld:

User posted image

It's the thing in the floor that the Spinner would operate.  Use it to rotate or activate other objects (like mirrors or statues or doors, perhaps).  The palette can be changed to suit the dungeon, but right now its colours allow it to fit well in this Clock Tower where the Spinner is introduced.



And these are the Spinner rails:

User posted image



User posted image



The red and blue parts would be transparent, and the rail would usually be laid over a chasm or other obstacle that Link would not be able to cross over without first obtaining the Spinner from the Clock Tower.  To add some challenge like in Twilight Princess, there would be places where Link has to jump from one side to another to continue, since the Spinner doesn't stop moving forward once Link gets on a rail with it.



Example track, with a jumpable gap:

User posted image


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on January 14, 2007, 11:09:47 PM
From: JonLeung

The first dungeon shouldn't have a prerequisite of a tool item.




In OoA you get the Seed Satchel and a fancy key before the first dungeon.



I appreciate the flow of ideas but we need something soon.



I have school and the end of the semester is approaching. :P



Anyways, I call dibs on Level 1.

---

Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on January 15, 2007, 07:41:32 AM
The Seed Satchel is in both (or I guess all three) of the games.  I suppose you could consider it a prerequisite...I must've turned a blind eye to the non-dungeon items.  >_<



I'm glad that you've decided to step up and do a dungeon.  :)  I was concerned that if we were churning out dungeon ideas without many mappers here that we'd scare away potential new mappers by seemingly telling them too much of what specifically to do.  I believe a lot of the best dungeon creation would come once one is working on it.  So being a mapper instead of just a brainstormer shows that you're willing to make your vision come true instead of expecting someone else to do it for you.



Of course, I'm a fine one to talk.  >_<



I invited three or four other semi-regular and regular mappers here...the fact that I haven't even gotten a response scares me.  Any of you guys lurking and not saying anything?


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on January 15, 2007, 08:11:39 PM
The Clock Tower is coming along pretty well.

User posted image

There's a brief outside portion, to that's why there's an entrance to the south which is really where the stairs/ladder would be.

User posted image

Looks like I'll probably put the compass, map, and Spinner on the first and second floor.

LAST UPDATED: Jan. 30 (See post 107 for further updates.)



I'm doing a little every day to keep me on track.  Once this snowballs I should be able to get more done quickly.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on January 20, 2007, 01:19:02 PM
I've started Level 1, but so far I haven't done anything worth showing. I'm using the tileset of the upper floor of the Sword and Shield dungeon in Seasons.

---

Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: Grizzly on January 25, 2007, 12:58:48 PM
Hm, I would want to do the second dungeon (Flower Gardens), but I am not familiar with Deku Babas and Deku Scrubs as well as when/where it is possible to manipulate the time. I only remember that in Seasons you had to jump on a stump to change seasons, but I forgot how that was in Ages and I couldn't find how it will be in this game in  your posts. Overall I cannot remember quite well the GBC Zelda games because it has been some years since I've played them. I will view the Speedruns for DX and OoS soon to get some memories back, but there isn't one for OoA at speeddemosarchive.



Addition: I won't be able to do that much in the next two/three weeks because of university, although I will try to do some planning on paper. I will scan sketches as soon as I've got them in case there are additional ideas and those things from you.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on January 25, 2007, 04:48:58 PM
^Hopefully this is what you are looking for.



OOA Speedrun on YouTube:



http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=F268B820D1642909


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on January 25, 2007, 09:08:19 PM
Grizzly said:
Hm, I would want to do the second dungeon (Flower Gardens), but I am not familiar with Deku Babas and Deku Scrubs as well as when/where it is possible to manipulate the time.


The Deku enemies you needn't worry too much about, since we're not going to put enemies down.  However, you can put a bush, hole, or big pink flower on the ground/floor where Deku Scrubs might pop out of, if you wanted.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on January 26, 2007, 05:25:41 AM
Here's another OoA speedrun.  This person is in the process of doing a more complete one.  It is posted in multiple segments:



Segment 1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j__nwQBSQKI



Segment 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsWCc8WQubs



Segment 3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt08d_qXQjg



Segment 4:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORrZKzMeLfE



There may be more to come soon.  (Hopefully...)


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: Grizzly on January 27, 2007, 12:57:01 AM
Thank you very much for the links. This will definitely help. And I remember those enemies which jump out of the ground - although I think I only know them from Ocarina Of Time, but I could be wrong there. I will see, when I watched the speedruns :)


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on January 27, 2007, 08:04:53 AM
I think we will have a daytime/nighttime switching item that can be used outside.  Something will allow you to enter a dungeon either during the day or during the night.  I'm thinking it shouldn't be used inside.  I don't remember Ages and Seasons allowing that switch inside.



I now think we don't want two versions of most dungeons for simplicity's sake.  Though I wanted the Hourglass-based dungeon to be able to flip-flop between day and night, the floors would be the same.  And the beach one's tide level puzzles, well, that might be doable too.  Just make a part where you can step out of the dungeon (an entrance/exit that can't be reached from outside) just to change the time of day, but essentially I don't want to double our workload which is big enough as it is.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on January 28, 2007, 05:20:43 AM
We probably would not want to switch inside a dungeon - too complicated.  I imagine that the day/night switcher would work kind of like the harp on OoA.  Also, I like the idea of leaving a level, switching the time of day, and coming back.  Just some miscellaneous thoughts.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on January 28, 2007, 11:29:24 AM
I updated the third floor of my Clock Tower above.



It's the end of January.  I'd like to see what you guys have so far.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on January 28, 2007, 12:29:47 PM
I got the 100th post!



The Clock Tower is shaping up very well.  I too would like to see what progress has been made.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on January 30, 2007, 08:38:58 PM
EDIT: The project is continuing, but will not be released until April 2008.


EDIT: The project is The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours, our imagining of what the third Oracle GBC game would be had it been completed and released.  If you are new here, you may want see here.


Two months to go.  Looking at the permissions list, this is who I see has access to this topic and how they are involved:



bustin98 - sprites/possible artwork?

Captain Drake - 3rd dungeon & a minor dungeon

Grizzly - 2nd dungeon

JonLeung - 4th dungeon, 5th dungeon & ideas

marioman - ideas

RT 55J - 1st dungeon & ideas

TerraEsperZ - overworld



JJMaxx - ?

KingKuros - ?

mephea - ?



DarkWolf - out

Revned - officially dropped out, but may still provide suggestions

Zeric - out




That's a lot more than I'm sure regularly come here in this topic.  Yeesh, that's almost everyone semi-regular here on the forum.  I'll be sending out some PMs soon.  Please confirm/reconfirm your level of involvement in this very topic so I can plan around things to be sure it gets done in comfortable time.



I work on this every day now (see my Clock Tower just a few posts up) but each dungeon that one more person picks up will be a great relief to me.  I will probably call dibs on the hourglass area (the 4th dungeon) as I see myself likely doing at least two anyway.



By the way, here's some rocking Zelda dungeon music that helps me get in the mood for creating dungeons.  :)


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: Grizzly on February 01, 2007, 01:30:30 AM
yes, I still want to do the second dungeon. I just hope I won't get time problems because I cannot start right now, at least not that much. It will get much better to the end of February.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: Captain Drake on February 01, 2007, 02:36:28 AM
I think I could do the Cave of Heroes. Give me like a week to finish up Super Adventure Island II first though, there's still 2 months left anyway.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on February 01, 2007, 06:21:14 AM
I see the new announcement at the top of the page.  So we are going with Oracle of Hours?  Just wondering.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 01, 2007, 10:07:20 AM
marioman Said:
I see the new announcement at the top of the page.  So we are going with Oracle of Hours?  Just wondering.
It wasn't a declaration of the final title itself, more like explaining what was chosen for the newbies in this topic.



Personally, I'd still really like to go with that title, but it's not my concern right now.  If you want we can have a vote on other possible titles, later.



My primary concern is knowing for real who's on board, and hoping to see some progress from those that are.  I still feel like I'm the only guy here.



I work on this every day, and that may be something you guys might want to try to break up a daunting task into something much more manageable.



With two months to go, each person that does an average of one room a day can get nearly two dungeons done before April Fool's Day.  We only need eight major dungeons, but I would like some breathing room as I don't want to be assembling everything the night before.



Captain Drake, thank you for doing a minor dungeon.  Would doing a major dungeon be something you might be able to do as well or instead?


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: DarkWolf on February 01, 2007, 01:46:35 PM
I'd really like to join a group project for once, but I just don't have the time I used to for making maps and I already have so many games I want to do.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 01, 2007, 06:33:58 PM
Since we're on the second page (if you have 100 posts per page) I might as well post my Clock Tower progress here now:



(Direct link to this post can be done through here, I think only if you have 100 posts per page.)



4th floor:

User posted image



Outside portion between 3rd and 4th floor:

User posted image



3rd floor:

User posted image



2nd floor:

User posted image



1st floor:

User posted image

LAST UPDATED: Feb. 18


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: Revned on February 01, 2007, 06:42:02 PM
Frankly, the clock face looks too flat. Might want to try adding texture of some sort. I like the idea, though.



Also, I think it would be best if you made a separate topic for each dungeon, even if nobody has started on them yet. That way people can easily see what's left to do, and what has already been done.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on February 01, 2007, 07:45:43 PM
I might as well post my progress.



http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/6850/level1dp4.png



It's supposed to be based off of Level 3 from the original game.



That torch in the middle would not be lit at the start of the dungeon. You'd need to go to the northmost room to do/get/eat something to light the torch. You'd bottle the flame to melt ice, ignite bombs, urmom, etc.

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Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: Captain Drake on February 02, 2007, 03:57:56 AM
I could do level 3 as well, probably.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: DarkWolf on February 02, 2007, 07:22:53 AM
I think the clock face looks fine considering the color depth limit of the project.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: TerraEsperZ on February 02, 2007, 10:55:46 AM
I'll be bouncing ideas for the overworld during the weekend, maybe in a separate thread. Feel free to contribute then.



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on February 02, 2007, 08:41:58 PM
I suggest that you bounce your ideas in another topic.



Anyways, I updated Level 1. Now it comes complete with hanging corpses. Woohoo!

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Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 02, 2007, 08:58:19 PM
Looking good, RT 55J.



Hmm, I guess we need dirt (Mole Mitts obstacle) and stone (Leever drill obstacle) tiles because we would want them in the later dungeons and for TerraEsperZ's overworld map.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on February 03, 2007, 05:22:47 PM
I think I'll be able to make the dirt and stone tiles.



JonLueng, could you make a small image with the dungeon items (map, compass, keys, etc)?



Anyways, I made another update to Level 1.

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Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: TerraEsperZ on February 04, 2007, 07:04:12 PM
Okay, I'm finally ready to get involved for the overworld. First off, is this dungeon list final?



-Main Dungeons:



1: Ice Cavern

2: Flower Garden

3: Beach Cave

4: Hourglass Palace

5: Clock Tower

6: Vampire's Crypt

7: Temple Of Light

8: Excavation Site

9: *Final Dungeon*



-Others:



Hero's Cave



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Each dungeon will have to be associated with a distinct region with a couple more to round things up. We'll need an area that changes depending on your animal companion, as well as yet another Fort for the Moblin King. As for the regions surrounding the dungeons, I need people's advice as well as preference.



For example, I have some nice ideas for a snowy area, but having it for the first dungeon feels wrong to me. The cold climate should feels like a dark and desperate place and thus be reserved for later, but that's only my opinion. Anyway, I'm picturing something mountainous like the Snowfall area in Majora's mask, with chasms and everything. Having this place in darkness would have to the mood I think, but that's just my preference.



For the Flower Garden, a forest will do nicely, but I'll have to find a way to make it interesting in terms of layout and plant sprites. Is this the dungeon that needs open flowers to reach it? I'm picturing jumping from flowers growing on the face of a cliff to reach the entrance.



I've been thinking about the Beach Cave. The name is fine, but I think it would be nice if the cave was located on the face of what, during high tides, look simply like a big piece of rock out in  a bay. When the tides are low, we could see a few decorations like the remains of wrecked ship or heck, make an minor dungeon with that. Plus, we'd see that featureless rock now sports ornate decorations with mermaid statues as well as a door.



I need some ideas for how the Hourglass Dungeon dungeon is supposed to look. A desert isn't exactly interesting by itself, even with the occasional rock and ridge. Knowing how you picture the dungeon would help that, plus we could always incorporate the typical "lost wood" labyrinth where you need to go in a specific series of directions to reach the dungeon, or another type of puzzle where you need to move in a certain way or else you are brought back to the entrance.



The Clock Tower should definitely be located either in an abandoned village or the main village, yet you could only enter it using whatever item you have after the fourth dungeon.



The Vampire's Crypt should definitely be a night area, but hopefully I can make it look different enough from the graveyard in both Oracle games. I'll have to think about this one further.



The Temple Of Light could be a place of worship with statues, columns and other examples of ancient architecture. It should be a beautiful and peaceful place bathed in light, with little fountains and stuff like that, unless someone has a better idea.



The Excavation area should really be connected to the story, which would explain why you have to avoid the enemies there. I was wondering if the stealth part was in getting inside the dungeon or part of the gameplay once inside? Because I'd like to try and work in some of those Indiana Jones references, like having mine carts. Maybe have a few places where you ride a cart inside the dungeon that takes you outside for a few seconds just for some variety before going back inside in a different place. In any case, I'll need more details for what you all have in mind.



Is the Hero's Cave a dungeon you visit near the start of the game, or near the end once you've powered up? That would influence its location.



Is there any idea of what the final dungeon is going to be? Or who the big bad guy is? In Ages, the final area was the Dark Tower which was near the starting area but was incomplete until you had all the seeds; in Seasons, there was simply Onox's Castle which was a much less interesting place both outside and inside.



As for the general disposition of all those areas, I'd like to change the formula a bit. Say, have a mountainous area at the bottom of the map, and have the beach either on the right or left side of it.



Anyway, I'm just brainstorming for now. Feel free to throw any ideas you have my way :)



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 05, 2007, 11:20:54 AM
The dungeon list I think is pretty much final (as much as anything COULD be "final" at this point, really), though the names might change.



I too expressed some concern about having an icy dungeon as the first.  But I think it wouldn't be too bad, you can still have icy chasms and stuff which would actually be a simple, early-type of obstacle as the Roc's Feather is the first item in this game.  I think something like Majora's Mask's Snowfall would work fine, but if that seems too dark and chasmy, perhaps something more like Twilight Princess's Snowpeak would work.  That ends with a downhill "chasmy" area, and before that is a climb up a snowy mountain, but I was really thinking about the first part, which is a body of water with ice floes (is that what they're called?), which could also provide some water to jump over and hence the possibility of getting a Heart Piece or other areas once the Roc's Feather from inside is obtained.  Anyway, we probably need more nighttime dungeons so darkness would work, here it's not like it's meant to be downright creepy, like the crypt stage later.  But RT-55J should have input on this, especially regarding the dungeon entrance.  Every dungeonmaker should have a say on what it looks like from the outside.  But that won't stop me from making some suggestions in the meantime!  :P



For the forest/flowery dungeon, I too was imagining large flowers on a cliffside that are open during the day.  Many dungeons have a day/night requirement and for this one it seemed like an obvious choice.  I was originally imagining large four-petaled flowers that open up (each petal would be another "standable space" in each of the cardinal directions to the center, also standable), but when it's nighttime, the entrance wouldn't be reachable since the flowers would be closed (Link wouldn't be able to even stand on folded up petals or bud or whatever, but mostly the petals aren't there to shorten the gaps enough to be jumpable).  But now that I think about it, the flowers maybe ought to have eight petals, or at least be "fuller" so as to cover all eight squares adjacent to the center portion when open.  It would make plotting jumps a lot easier.



I like your ideas for the Beach Cave, I have nothing to add.  And we ought to have a few small "minor dungeons", like you mentioned.  Not a priority at the moment, but if we have time it shouldn't be too hard to have a few.  Minor dungeons are only a handful of rooms, right?



I've called dibs on the Horuglass Palace. I'd imagined it to be one of the few dungeons where it's actually playable in day or night, and the only one where there is a difference by doing so, but I think it should only be enterable in the day.  Perhaps the player can still exit the dungeon via the main entrance to step outside to change the time to night, but they wouldn't be able to leave the screen of the entrance.  Well, actually, it's more important that they're kept out at night rather than in, actually, so a one-way thing like a ledge might work.  Anyway, the idea was that I'd make a five-floor dungeon which would actually look like it was actually an overall hourglass shape, with the floors reversed in the night.  Lots of shifting sand and puzzles involving pits.  For the exterior, I'm thinking it would be a giant hourglass, but it wouldn't be "clear" (ie. it's not meant to be read from the outside, stupid as that sounds).  Maybe it could look like a big stone hourglass (maybe it'd look like the Pyramids in terms of large brick styling), or look like an hourglass carved in the face of a desert cliff wall.  Either way, the entrance would be on the central part...the narrowest part of the hourglass, so maybe it'd be a big thing with stairs on a whole screen leading up to it, or the hourglass could be partially submersed in sand.  The top part doesn't have to be fully built as there's no reason for it to be visible to the player, even if there's more of the map to the north (imagine Hyrule Castle in A Link To The Past, for instance).  Hope that's not too complicated.  Maybe it should be nearly half-buried in sand, that'll make it easier.  (Or rather, half "under" the sand..."buried" makes it sound like it's physically stuck, which it can't be.)  I do like the idea of hiding it in the desert, Lost Woods-style...



For some reason I hadn't put much thought into the outside and surroundings of the Clock Tower, depite the fact that that's probably the dungeon furthest along.  I don't remember if I ever said that it needed to be day or night, but probably not, as it doesn't really matter, aside from the colour of the sky in my brief "outside" portion that's not really outside.  You've seen that part, I assume.  The Clock Tower is grey.  Don't make me change it.



The Vampire's Crypt is definitely dark, definitely a nighttime thing.  The name itself was under some contention (is that the word I'm looking for?) because some people didn't like the idea of vampires but because of the day/night theme I think it's pretty much a given that there should be a dark, shadowy, creepy dungeon that smells of death.  Graveyards seem to be a staple of Zelda games, but perhaps a grand mausoleum/crypt entrance will be enough to make it unique.  I seem to recall Ocarina Of Time's Shadow Temple to be little more than a hole in the wall, for instance.



Looks like we're on the same wavelength (ha ha) for the Temple Of Light.  The Temple Of Light I imagined would also have angled mirrors rotatable (via Spinner gears) for the light puzzles, perhaps those could be outside, but more as a decorative thing since they probably don't have much real purpose with sunlight already everywhere outdoors.



Ask RT-55J what he meant when he thought up the Excavation Area.  The "sneaking around" bit he wants to implement reminds me of the infiltration of the Gerudo prison camp thingy in Majora's Mask.  So I imagine (and hope) that all that sneakiness will be entirely outside.  As expected of such an area, there will be plenty of tiered holes, ladders, and piles of dirt, making for interesting sneaking terrain.  And at this point most of the game's tools are available to Link, so tool-based solutions are possible too (perhaps there could be broken tracks that actually serve as Spinner tracks, for example).



I guess we still haven't come up with an idea for the major baddie.  Any ideas?  And any ideas for the name of the overworld?



It's cool that you're going to try to mix up the map a little bit.  But I'm having trouble imagining the mountains anywhere but "north".  The top of the map is where it's easy to put the sky and clouds as a background, giving the illusion of height.  If the mountains are in the south, at best it'll just look hilly.  And while sky isn't unusual in the middle of the map (like A Link To The Past's Dark World on top of the pyramid right in the center), I'd probably avoid it here.  It'd stand out (a lot more than my suggestion to not have the hourglass necessarily complete) and while it might be something a real Zelda overworld designer might actually do, the awkwardness might clue someone in to the fact that all this is fake sooner than they ought to realise it.  If you get my meaning.



The overworld must have features that involve the items.  Most naturally, as a way to ensure a particular order of the dungeons, as discussed earlier.  I already designed the Spinner gear switch and the Spinner tracks, which ought to be used for areas meant after the Clock Tower.  We still need the dirt that the Mole Mitts would dig through, and the very similar rocky blocks that the Leever Drill would drill through.  Other overworld elements are kind of a given.  You know what they are.  Caves where Rupees or Pieces Of Heart might be, or simply as a means of passage...some would have bombable entrances.  A town-ish area.  NPCs there but also in the wild, perhaps implying a sidequest.  Trees with seeds.  And you are already aware of the animal companion regions.  Don't forget the Maku Tree!  But I didn't really need to tell you all that.



Anyway, it looks like the overworld is in good hands!  :)  Seems like you're asking the right questions and already have some ideas.  I don't know how much I helped there...the dungeon entrances in particular will probably fall into place soon as the dungeons themselves get made.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: TerraEsperZ on February 05, 2007, 02:33:30 PM
A frozen river or lake might be interesting, and I'll definitely add a few chasms just for show. I'm eager to hear RT 55J's thoughts on this area.



I think having 3x3 flowers would make them much too big and cover too large an area; 2x2 would be more than enough considering that you could have a few places where you'd need to jump across 3 or 4 of them one after another. Maybe have a few places with vines as well where you'd need to jump from a flower and grab the vines on the wall.



Having a giant stone hourglass made of pyramid-style stones would look cool. I wouldn't bury it too much actually; I'd simply put the entrance at the bottom of the screen to leave more room for the building. Considering that most of the time, the screens with dungeon entrances barely have any feature of importance aside from a door, I'd really like to practice my spriting abilities and create good-looking exteriors.



As for the Clock Tower's location, the main town would work well, because otherwise it would need in a place where people live or once lived, and I don't want to rely on "ancient ruins" too much. And why in the world would I want to change its color :D ?



I don't have any idea for names yet unfortunately.



And yeah, I hadn't thought about the sky being in the middle of the map, so I'll move it to the top, but I'd really like to not have the entire north portion of the map being one big mountain again. I'd really like to put the bay on the side for once though.



As for the Maku Tree, I hadn't forgotten about him. I'm currently sketching out how to make him look different from his two existing cousins. Everything else like stairs, cave entrances, rocks, pieces of heart, seed trees, have all been taken into account. I'll try and sketch a basic map of what I'm thinking about within the next few days.



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 06, 2007, 03:37:43 PM
You're probably right, 2x2 flowers would probably work better.



I think you'll have a lot of fun with this. Reminds me of when I did the Link's Awakening Advance map two years ago. There are a lot of elements you can already use, from the two Oracle games (as well as Link's Awakening/DX), so some days you can work pretty quickly, but there are also many original elements that will test your spriting skills. I don't think I ever had to make totally new sprites/tiles for my LAA maps, but I did have to recolour and tweak some pieces. It's probably more fun for you because it'll be more rewarding than my mere "tracing over" which became obsoleted the instant Revned made that (actually very handy) tile slicer/splicer.



No pressure, but the overworld is a big deal in this project. Not that there isn't effort put in the dungeons, but I think the overworld will go a long way in "selling" this. If my somewhat shoddy LAA map fooled a couple people, a totally original series of maps that look good could fool hundreds of times more people. At least I'd like to think so. :)



I look forward to your sketches, your spriting skills, and the final product!



EDIT: I must admit, you seem more than capable of doing the overworld and I really hope you do have fun with it, which is the point. I always felt you were in the same boat as Revned when it came to things like this, and he hardly made any effort to hide his displeasure with last year's project. Not that I don't appreciate him coming through with a couple maps despite that.  So I thank you for making time for this, but I really hope that you have some fun with it along the way too.



I think that with enough polish, this year the project will actually have the potential to fool people, which should also add to the worth of doing this.



(And next year, if you guys are still around, I think you and/or Revned should take the reins in heading up an April Fool's project.  Or someone else other than me, anyway.)


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on February 06, 2007, 04:10:56 PM
A frozen river or lake might be interesting, and I'll definitely add a few chasms just for show. I'm eager to hear RT 55J's thoughts on this area.



What do you think I am? Creative?



On a more serious note, I can't help reading your plans without think Termina. Perhaps it could be set a couple hundred years after Majora's Mask (or whenever the the Oracle games are on the 'timeline'). Don't think that it would mean you'd just be transplanting MM from 3D to 2D. Just look at how different Hyrule is in each game.



Anyways, to actually answer you question, I originally thought of having the dungeon on the top of a mountain, with a screen above the entrance being the summit. On that screen you'd have to push a block or something to let light into the dungeon, thereby lighting the torch (and falling in the process). However, I do like your idea of it being on a frozen lake. I'm leaning more towards it being an island (TMC) rather than a cave (OoT). I also think that some chasms would look pretty sweet if done right. They could possibly be dried out riverbeds.



If my somewhat shoddy LAA map fooled a couple people [...]



I'll admit, I was one of those people. :P The next year I wasn't fooled a bit given the fact that I already knew what the project was beforehand (and the idea seemed quite absurd).



Speaking of knowing beforehand, the title of this thread should be changed, as even unregistered users can see the thread in the most recent posts list.

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Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 06, 2007, 05:57:40 PM
RT 55J Said:
Speaking of knowing beforehand, the title of this thread should be changed, as even unregistered users can see the thread in the most recent posts list.


That's weird.  The topic title shouldn't've even been visible.  But it's fixed now.



Nice to see that I fooled you too, a couple years ago.  :D



I spoke to bustin98 briefly today about the possibility of him drawing the villain as a piece of coloured artwork, if we wanted to let Zelda fan sites know about this beforehand.  We haven't decided on a villain yet, but maybe bustin98 could do some sketches and we could pick the one we like and he could do one fully coloured.  I asked if he could emulate the Oracle artwork fairly closely, and in the case of a villain, he wouldn't be bound to the same "accuracy" as drawing Link (though I asked about that too).  He mentioned that colouring it would be a good idea, as the characters he drew last year, while pretty good, could have used some colour.



But of course I should ask you if we even want to send artwork and/or screenshots of the game to other web sites at all, and if we do, if we should give them forewarning that it's a joke, or risk it ruined before we even put it up here.  After all, this is OUR joke.  Does VGMaps.com need help in perpetuating the joke?  Perhaps we should just let it be, and at some point someone's going to be fooled.  More on this later...


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: bustin98 on February 06, 2007, 08:00:34 PM
Hey, I popped in and read pretty much everything thats going on. Day and night sounds cool. What I didn't come away with from all the reading is what is the villains role in the game is, other than the last boss. I'll make some designs, but I need some info, if there is any. Otherwise I could just draw up some designs based on an idea that the baddie is a creature of the night, and an idea of him being a creature of light. That may go against the norm, but sometimes the enemy is the unexpected...



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Cool beans


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: TerraEsperZ on February 06, 2007, 08:10:13 PM
He could have two forms, one that looks heroic and regal (maybe the story of the game could have us fooled into thinking someone else is the villain), and one that is more demonic when his real identity is revealed; the two looking vaguely similar in general shape.



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: bustin98 on February 06, 2007, 10:23:37 PM
Just had a thought. I don't know if the two forms would be intruding on the Prince of Persia Two Thrones idea. But I like the idea and would be cool to draw up.

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Cool beans


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: TerraEsperZ on February 06, 2007, 10:31:05 PM
I don't think so. With "The Two Thrones", the double identity was part of the gameplay. Here, we'd basically have a disguise and a true form.



And by the way, anyone has ideas about what they'd like to see on the overworld? One thing I thought about is that both Oracle games basically had two worlds to explore: Seasons had both Holodrum and underground Subrosia, while Ages had Labrynna in the present as well as the past. I'd expect a third Oracle game to feature something similar, but to be honest, that would entail much more work which I'm certain we don't need right now. I'm only mentioning it as a matter if principle.



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 07, 2007, 07:55:51 AM
Well, we do know that there would be night and day, and there should be enough variation for the two to be separate maps.



You would probably want to start with the day map (since it'd be more colourful), then when it's pretty much done, you derive the night map by darkening it or palette swapping the brightest colours.  Then of course you change the things for the night...closing up flowers, changing other plant life, raising the tide level, closing up buildings, opening/closing certain dungeons (though most of that should be taken care of with the specific day/night obstacles).  I was hesitant to have the water frozen during the night as that sounds too much like Oracle Of Seasons, but I suppose in the vicinity of the icy dungeon there could be a couple small patches that become ice.  You could have a large animal blocking a path (like the walrus or whatever it was in Link's Awakening that blocked the desert) that's asleep or in a different position.  Or a group of people in different positions, like in the excavation area.  (The thing about the tide...it's probably easier to show it rising if it was the whole south portion.  But I guess you didn't want that.  It's still doable on the side, of course, and you'd find a way.)



There's lots you could do, and yet it would still be relatively simple.  It doesn't have five "worlds" like Seasons (you mention Subrosia and Holodrum, but Holodrum had four seasons (and you also mapped the "default seasons")), and the two "worlds" wouldn't be as varied as the time periods in Ages.  Heck, day/night shouldn't even be as different as the Light/Dark Worlds of A Link To The Past.  You're changing some things, some of which are tile replacements (yay for Revned's tile slicer/splicer), and other minor things, but you wouldn't be altering the landscape or structures at all (other than the overall colour).



I actually think it'd be kind of fun...depending on how the time goes I could do the nighttime map instead of a third (or fourth!) dungeon if time allows if you didn't want to do it.  It seems like that'd be the most fun part, actually.  I've always enjoyed multiple "worlds" in the same physical space.  But if you made the day map, I think we'd both want you to do the night map if it's as simple as I'm thinking it will be.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on February 07, 2007, 11:32:15 AM
Just a few things:



Here is an interesting article:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda:_The_Triforce_Trilogy



I hate to keep bringing up the name, but here is an interesting piece of info:



The titles Fruit of the Mysterious Tree: Chapter of Earth and Fruit of the Mysterious Tree: Chapter of Time and Space were used in Japan, while the North American and European versions were renamed Oracle of Seasons and Oracle of Ages, respectively.



The Japanese name would have probably been something like Mysterious Tree: Chapter of Sun and Moon.  (Therefore leading to Oracle of Days, but that's another issue.)



Also, I don't know if you are going to provide a Photoshopped picture of the cartridge for "authenticity", but if you do, the label should be GREEN.



Lastly, what about the day/night switcher being a lantern?  Just an idea.



Nice to see the overworld map progressing.  IMO, that is the most interesting part of the Oracle games.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on February 07, 2007, 05:16:33 PM
The boss that RT 55J used for his map already appears in the Ancient Ruins of OoS. Just to let you know.



Shows you how much I played the Oracle games. :P



Anyways, after looking at the Ancient Ruins map, I have come to the conclusion that the pixel artist who butchered Manhandla should die. I'm keeping my version.

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Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 07, 2007, 05:59:31 PM
I was going to ask, why is there a bombable opening into the boss room?  It's kinda awkward.  I don't see the point of getting a sneak peek at the boss and then falling.  And then what?  I don't even think that would work, you'd come back in the previous screen, which isn't right.  If we were making a StarTropics game, it wouldn't be too weird to have a room where you fall right away, but this here is too awkward.  I'd change it.



I also wonder if anyone's good with sprite art to do mini-bosses and bosses for people like me who might suck at original designs.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on February 07, 2007, 06:28:52 PM
I was going to ask, why is there a bombable opening into the boss room?



That's just my twisted sense of humor at work.

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Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on February 07, 2007, 07:31:42 PM
Here is a continuation of my recent idea list:



Maybe we should build up the side quests by saying that there were x-many (50?) quests, and you get something special for completing them all.  Again, that would just reinforce the courage element of the game.



Another thing.  Wasn't the name of the Vampire Crypt going to be changed to something more Zelda-esque?


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 08, 2007, 08:10:29 AM
I would change the bombable opening, RT.  >_<



And marioman, since we're making maps, though coherent, I don't think we're going to be concerned with the inner workings of every little thing in the game, especially sidequests.  I'm sure TerraEsperZ will work in a number of things that imply sidequests but I see little point as to defining exactly what they are.  I suppose if someone were to make a fake review of the game, we could mention such things like examples of some and the number of them, but otherwise it seems like something we can't really integrate in the maps themselves.



And I'm questioning my previous idea of having other web sites in on this or having a review.  The maps should stand on their own.  Last year, I saw a few sites that debunked the http:://solid-x.com web site before any link to VGMaps.com was put up, likely causing our maps to not be noticed.  They said something about the screenshots on the site, but clearly hadn't seen the maps.  Not to say I didn't like the web site, but the timing of some Internet April Fool's joke scourers hit it up at the wrong time.



That said, while I would like bustin98's artistic take on the villain, we probably won't use it as I originally intended.  But maybe if he can do sprite art he can make us some bosses and mini-bosses?



The names aren't final.  It should probably still be some kind of dark/creepy crypt thing.  As to whether the boss is actually a vampire is probably a moot point.



I thought about a sundial myself, earlier.  Seemed too literal as a time-switching device.  The lantern you mentioned before is better.  I wonder if we can rework it to something else (but similar), though, since a lantern has been in several Zelda games.  Well, maybe it'll be okay if no one has dark rooms in their dungeons.  BESIDES the fact that I don't want to be the dick who shoots down every idea that isn't mine.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: TerraEsperZ on February 08, 2007, 11:00:06 AM
A lantern seems too common to me. I'd rather it be something time-related, like an ornate mecanical watch, or even a sundial if it can be made to look good. How about a medallion like in ""The Mysterious Cities of Gold" cartoon, where you have a smaller sun surrounded by a crescent moon with sun rays motifs, thereby incorporating both day and night?



And yeah, this project is already big enough without putting time into defining every little subquest and caves. The goal for me will be to create locations that seem to hint that something should happen there, or places that seem unreachable at first glance but with interesting features so that peopel imagine that something cool must take place there.



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on February 08, 2007, 02:07:12 PM
I didn't mean give a list of the sidequests.  I was just saying that we could say that there is an incentive for completing all of the sidequests.  (An extra boss, connectivity with the other games, an item, etc.)  I figure that you are going to give a description of the game, so I was just making a suggestion for that.



The medallion switcher seems too generic.  The switchers in the other games have more than one part.  (The different songs for the Harp of Ages, and the different gems for the Rod of Seasons.)  I guess we would need a part that brings daylight and one that brings darkness.  Maybe that will trigger some ideas.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on February 08, 2007, 07:10:49 PM
The medallion switcher seems too generic. The switchers in the other games have more than one part. (The different songs for the Harp of Ages, and the different gems for the Rod of Seasons.) I guess we would need a part that brings daylight and one that brings darkness. Maybe that will trigger some ideas.



Gun of Hours - Shoot yourself in the foot to switch the time of day! Different bullets have different effects. The only problem is it costs one heart.



Mushroom - While this might not actually change the time of day, you won't be able to tell the difference. Different sides have different effects.



Ocarina of Time - Play this instrument to...



Nevermind.



Another update.

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Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 08, 2007, 08:59:33 PM
I really think that you should remove the unnecessary "entrance" into the boss room.  Please change that.  As the first dungeon, there's a good chance someone will look at your dungeon first (after the overworld) and seeing something like that which seems rather unZeldaish is more likely to tip them off.  Sure, you may think it's minor.  But I don't think it's worth whatever amusement just to have that there.



When we find a good spriter, we really should get a good-looking original boss and mini-boss in there too.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on February 09, 2007, 08:01:53 PM
One more room left...

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Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on February 11, 2007, 11:04:22 AM
One question about the bosses.  Since this would have been the courage-themed game of the Triforce Trilogy, wouldn't that mean that the bosses would have been based off of Zelda 2?  I would think that using the Zelda 2 bosses would reduce the time necessary to complete the project.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 11, 2007, 12:13:40 PM
Wait, what?  I don't follow.  I see no relation between this and Zelda II.  Besides, even if there was, converting the bosses from a side view to more of an overhead view would take some work anyway.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on February 11, 2007, 12:30:42 PM
Did you read the Wikipedia article that I posted?  It completely explains what was going on with the Oracle series.



My mistake - The Oracle of Seasons has all six of the Zelda 1 bosses in it.  (Ages is the one that would have been the Zelda 1 parallel.  Zelda 1 is about the Triforce of Wisdom.)



I was thinking that (following the pattern here) since Zelda 2 was about the Triforce of Courage, the courage game would have been the one to have the Zelda 2 bosses in it.



Anyway, it is just a thought.  I figure that it would be less work than starting on boss designs from scratch.  At least the basic design would be complete - just the spriting would be left.  It would also fit the pattern.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on February 11, 2007, 12:38:53 PM
Besides, even if there was, converting the bosses from a side view to more of an overhead view would take some work anyway.



We could have a couple of the bosses in side-view.

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Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 11, 2007, 01:33:41 PM
Actually...that's true.  >_>


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on February 12, 2007, 11:32:48 AM
I would say that it wouldn't be as hard as you would think.  Some of the bosses such as the fire bird and the ghost guy (I don't know their names) are already almost front-view anyways.  The others would be a little more work, but I would imagine that it would not be that much more.



As for where they appear, the ghost guy could be in the crypt level, the snake could be in the hourglass, one of the knights could be in the Light Temple, the Minotaur could be in the beach (as in Zelda 2), etc.  They would fit fairly well.



I do not know if the fire bird from the Great Palace would be considered a good boss since it is so close to the end of Zelda 2.  However, I could see it being used in the ice level.  I would just recommend against using Dark Link because he is the final boss.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 12, 2007, 12:06:37 PM
As far as I remember, there weren't mini-bosses in Zelda II, so even if we did resort to adapting the Zelda II bosses, we still wouldn't have enough.  We'd have to design some original sprites anyway, and if we have to find a good sprite-maker, we may as well to get them to do more original designs.



Basically, because of the attempt to fool people, I'm hesitant to use recognizeable bosses.  Even though Seasons has the bosses from the original Zelda, that to me isn't reason enough to necessarily use all old bosses here.  Then there's perspective and size issues.  So Zelda II can't answer our boss issue.  Not totally, and not preferably.



For the first and last major dungeons, the ones people will likely look at, I definitely want original bosses.  Sorry about the pressure, but this includes RT's ice dungeon...besides the fact that marioman said it was used in one of the real Oracle games already.



I'll ask bustin98 about spritework.  As good as his artwork is, I think spritework might be more necessary here.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on February 12, 2007, 01:33:33 PM
As far as I remember, there weren't mini-bosses in Zelda II, so even if we did resort to adapting the Zelda II bosses, we still wouldn't have enough. We'd have to design some original sprites anyway, and if we have to find a good sprite-maker, we may as well to get them to do more original designs.



Basically, because of the attempt to fool people, I'm hesitant to use recognizeable bosses. Even though Seasons has the bosses from the original Zelda, that to me isn't reason enough to necessarily use all old bosses here. Then there's perspective and size issues. So Zelda II can't answer our boss issue. Not totally, and not preferably.




No problem - not all of my ideas have to be good.  I just try to come up with ideas that follow the patterns that have been set by the other games.



The sprites in Seasons for the Zelda 1 bosses are not exact translations from the original game.  As a matter of fact, some of them are slightly unrecognizable.  Also, there are two new bosses (Medelock and Mothula) in Seasons that make up for the fact that there are only six bosses in Zelda 1.  I thought that some new bosses could still be added in addition of the Zelda 2 bosses - especially mini-bosses. (I believe that all of the mini-bosses in Seasons are new because Zelda 1 didn't have many mini-bosses either.)



As I said before, it is just an idea.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 12, 2007, 06:04:54 PM
Well, I guess it might save time for maybe a couple bosses which I can live with.  And you did bring up the point of bosses leading me to ask bustin about it as we'd have to address it at some point and it might take some time.  So whatever the bosses end up being, I would think that your idea being brought up still has worth, despite how I think I sound most of the time.  :P  So thanks.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 13, 2007, 08:07:43 PM
I'm almost done the Clock Tower.  It still needs the bosses and the Essence, of course.  And the mini-map.  I want to tweak some decorations, minor details, and maybe adjust the puzzle rooms (I think I may actually have too many, especially the third floor), but as it is, it should certainly be "solvable".  With the exception of the giant turnstile thing room (and even that took some work to rework the walls), the rooms were made from scratch.  What do you think?



How are your guys' dungeons coming along?


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: Grizzly on February 14, 2007, 02:47:46 AM
I haven't started yet. I will create a concept in the next few days and see if I get enough ideas for that flower dungeon.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: TerraEsperZ on February 14, 2007, 10:46:58 AM
I'm mostly finished with collecting all the tiles and the color palettes I'll need, in addition to being hard at work on sketching the layout of the overworld.



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on February 14, 2007, 05:09:51 PM
I practically haven't touched Level 1 since the last update. :P



Anyways, I think I'll do the Vampire's Crypt. I don't really have any ideas for it yet, but I have an idea for the Teleporter Cube. Each side of the cube could correspond to a Greek letter. Standing on a tile would teleport you to a corresponding tile elsewhere in the area. imo, the letters should be: Gamma, Delta, Sigma, Phi, Psi, and Omega.

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Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 14, 2007, 06:18:13 PM
I was thinking colours.  But maybe symbols are a better idea.  Just not sure about using Greek, though.  I was going to suggest Hylian letters, but I think they look too similar.  Maybe geometric shapes?



For the overworlds in Ages and Seasons, was there a quick way to get around?  I don't remember.  Because if there were teleporting ports like in Link's Awakening, they could take you to a different area depending on the time of day (like the warping whirlpools that change after you've been to the Dark World in A Link To The Past).  Then again, maybe not, there wouldn't be a way to show that.  Though why not use the same teleport spaces that RT-55J will use?  You'll need them for the next dungeon after that anyway, but you could have them elsewhere, and it would be easy to make them different in day or night.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: TerraEsperZ on February 14, 2007, 07:46:57 PM
In Seasons at least, Gale Seeds (which look like little tornadoes) allowed you to choose at which Mystical Seed Tree you want to go (among those you've discovered of course).



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 15, 2007, 08:20:13 AM
Geez, I keep forgetting about the seeds.



Isn't one of the seeds like a fire-seed type thing that functions like a lantern to light torches and stuff?  I suppose I could add a torch puzzle in the too-empty rooms on the first floor of my Clock Tower...



If you can use seeds before the seed-shooter thing (sorry, I don't remember how early the satchel appears), then I think we'd have to avoid any fiery seed things before the first dungeon since RT has a fire-based puzzle in mind.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: TerraEsperZ on February 15, 2007, 05:14:47 PM
A quick recap:

--------------



Ember Seeds: Light torches, burn down trees and set enemies on fire.



Pegasus Seeds: Allows you to run for a few seconds.



Mystical Seeds: Mostly reveal secrets like with Owl Statues.



Scent Seeds: Attract enemies.



Gale Seeds: Send you to any discovered Mystical Tree of your choice.



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 15, 2007, 08:08:31 PM
Does anyone know how I came up with the Clock Tower boss?

User posted image

If so, I'll edit it some more.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on February 15, 2007, 08:26:03 PM
Wow!  Kirby's Dream Land 2!  Zelda and Kirby, a very unlikely combination.  (Outside of SSB.)  I would say that it is way too recognizable.  Sorry.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 15, 2007, 08:47:31 PM
Agh, shoot.  I'll tweak it some more.  All I did was copy half of it, paste it as its other half, resize it (without filters) and minor touch-ups.  Then again I guess that wasn't much.  Hopefully I can make it a more distinct sprite without messing it up too badly.



BTW, marioman, why don't you do some sprites?  Are you good at that sort of thing?  I already asked about the Essences, didn't I?  That can't be too hard...


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on February 15, 2007, 09:05:55 PM
I've finally "finished" Level 1. What do you think?



http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/7051/level1gt1.png

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Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on February 16, 2007, 05:38:04 AM
BTW, marioman, why don't you do some sprites? Are you good at that sort of thing? I already asked about the Essences, didn't I? That can't be too hard...



Sorry, I have no sprite/art skills.  I think that I failed pre-school finger painting five years in a row.



I do have a question.  Why are you just modifying a boss from another game?  I thought that you wanted original bosses.  I modified boss like that would be immediately spotted.  Unless it were a boss from another Zelda game.  Otherwise, I would say that you would probably want to start from scratch.



Good job on Level 1 RT 55J.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 16, 2007, 07:44:30 AM
At least give it a shot, marioman.  An Essence is only 16 x 16 pixels, and doesn't have many colours.  You could easily doodle something in Paint and there really isn't much space to mess it up.  If you draw the general shape, that's already more than halfway there.



I was hoping that a modified sprite from another series would be less likely to be recognized.  I will modify it more so that the original only served as a mere template.  But if bustin or someone else can churn out some good (and distinctly original) sprites for all of us then I will throw out my design and ask the other dungeonmakers to use theirs too for a sense of consistency.  I will actively look for spritemakers on other forums right away (it's how I met bustin for the art in last year's project) and then if they do good work, we can leave the bosses to them.  So, dungeonmakers, think about what your ideal boss for your dungeon might look like, so they have an idea.



RT, I was trying to walk through your dungeon.  Where do the stairs in the upper-left lead?  And I think for a first dungeon there should be a little less ice (as in, the slippery surfaces) and aren't the map and compass both rather late?  By the time you get the map you're practically at the boss, aren't you?  I'd also put a shutter door in the mini-boss room, even if you do want the Roc's Feather to be obtained before facing the mini-boss.  And in the header, there's no name of the dungeon.  What is the name of the dungeon, anyway?  (I put together "Clock Tower" on mine from ransom note-like cutting from other dungeon headers...unfortunately the "Black Tower" level, which would've saved me lots of time, did not have such a header because it wasn't a regular dungeon...but it was stil fun to put together.)  And if I do get a sprite-maker soon, would you be willing to replace your boss?  You can think up what your ideal dungeon boss would be (so they can make it) if what you really want is different from the whatchamacallit that you used.



After you fix whatever needs to be fixed, are you going to do another dungeon?  Like the Excavation Site you proposed?  There are 44 days until April Fool's (and I'd rather we didn't work on this 'til the last minute).  That's a much later dungeon so you're be working with obstacles that involve a variety of Link's tools.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on February 16, 2007, 12:09:31 PM
Where do the stairs in the upper-left lead?



An outside area that enables you to light the torch in the middle. The torch isn't lit at the start of the dungeon (maybe I should change the map to reflect that).



And I think for a first dungeon there should be a little less ice (as in, the slippery surfaces)



True :P



and aren't the map and compass both rather late? By the time you get the map you're practically at the boss, aren't you?



I don't know what led you to that conclusion (the torch, maybe?).



And in the header, there's no name of the dungeon. What is the name of the dungeon, anyway?



The reason there is no name in the header is because I'm lazy. The dungeon's name is "Ice Cavern".



And if I do get a sprite-maker soon, would you be willing to replace your boss?



Yes, but I don't really have any ideas. >.>



After you fix whatever needs to be fixed, are you going to do another dungeon? Like the Excavation Site you proposed?



Yes, I'll do another dungeon. However, I think it'll be the Vampire Crypt first instead of the Excavation Site (although I might do that too).

---

Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on February 16, 2007, 01:37:08 PM
At least give it a shot, marioman. An Essence is only 16 x 16 pixels, and doesn't have many colours. You could easily doodle something in Paint and there really isn't much space to mess it up. If you draw the general shape, that's already more than halfway there.



I wish I could.  I am absolutely swamped with non-project things, and I am lucky to get a post in here and there.  (Trust me - I have verified Murphy's Law multiple times in the past week alone.)  Taking the time to try and learn spriting and figure out the Oo* art style would be more than I could handle at this time.  Sorry.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on February 16, 2007, 01:48:55 PM
Version 1.1



http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/6231/level1mj2.png



Dungeon Name added



Less ice



Change silver rupee puzzle. I think it was practically unsolvable beforehand. :P



Mini-boss room changed



Bomb wall removed (the bomb-plant thing looked terrible)

---

Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on February 17, 2007, 04:07:06 PM
Level 6 - Vampire's Crypt



Last Update: February 17

Progress: 4/40



http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/9328/level6fk1.png



The shape is supposed to be a Jack-o-lantern if you couldn't tell.



Also, I'm wondering how the rest of you are doing. We only have 42 days left.

---

Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 17, 2007, 08:07:29 PM
I'm going to be starting a second dungeon right away here...


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on February 18, 2007, 07:36:44 AM
So, is Dark Matter going to remain the boss of the Clock Tower?  I would like to provide a reminder that Kirby's Rainbow Resort is one of your affiliates, and ANYONE coming here from that site will immediately recognize that boss.



I don't want to keep bringing this up, but I think that, if you are going to modify sprites anyway, you should use Zelda 2 bosses.  (You could just the same method that you used on Dark Matter to make the sprite top-down view.)  That way if someone does recognize the boss, there will be an excuse available.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 18, 2007, 08:30:43 AM
No, (BTW, I think his pre-form is called Dark Warrior,) it won't be the finalized boss as-is.  As I said, I hope to find a real spritemaker, and if not, it'll change before the final version, either replaced or more heavily modified so as to be unrecognizeable.



41 days isn't a ton, but it's still plenty.  If we do like 2 dungeon rooms a day on average we'll have time to spare.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 19, 2007, 08:37:01 AM
Aside from bosses and Essences and the clock face fix, the Clock Tower is done, so I'll reserve this space for the progress on my hourglass-based dungeon...

User posted imageUser posted image

User posted imageUser posted image

Don't worry about the really big floor.  The plans for the Hourglass Palace or Hourglass Shrine or whatever it's called are actually simpler than they look and sound.  It looks like there are many rooms but this won't be as puzzlish as the Clock Tower and the bottom floors will be buried in sand dependent on the time of day so in reality, I may even have fewer rooms to work with than the Clock Tower.



Okay, here are the floors proper:



First floor (central part of hourglass):

User posted image

LAST UPDATED: Feb. 20


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: TerraEsperZ on February 19, 2007, 10:52:10 AM
JonLeung, I took another look at the clock face seen on the outside, and I'm afraid that it will be really obvious that it is fake. It doesn't respect any of the constraint of the game engine, namely the fact that most graphics use 16 x 16 tiles which themselves are made up of 8 x 8 tiles (which can't have more than 4 colors each). If anything, it would be wasteful for game coders to make a graphic like your clock face which would require way too many specific tiles to achieve its perfectly round shape. I though you should know that because it will make fooling people harder.



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 19, 2007, 01:05:41 PM
Both comments are noted!



I figured the clock face might be something I'd have to work on.  And, perhaps, also in answer to your second point, you could design the Clock Tower from the outside how you see fit (I'm assuming the entrance might have the face visible), and I will adapt that outside portion accordingly.



Since we're not far enough in the dungeons anyway, and most should be self-enclosed and not too related to their entrances, I would say that you should design them all as you see fit, and the dungeonmakers should adapt to how it looks on the overworld, if there's anything to adapt, really.



The clock face (which I will change after your design) is an exception.  I think RT wanted a brief outside portion that has to be represented on the overworld.  Beyond those, I don't think anything will have an outside portion.  (The Excavation Site's supposed sneaky-area is before the dungeon so the dungeon itself is not concerned with that.)



I've started on the hourglass-based dungeon, as you can see.  I'm looking forward to it, but i'm more looking forward to the overworld, actually.  :)


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on February 19, 2007, 01:47:11 PM
Although the Clock Tower looks pretty good, I have to agree with TerraEsperZ that you broke a few "rules".



Anyways, I took the liberty of fixing the top floor and the clock face.



http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/3959/level5cftp3.png



Taking into account tile flippage, the new clock face only has 36 unique tiles, and I think it respects the 4 color rule.



http://img70.imageshack.us/my.php?image=level54fap3.png



Even though it looks uglier, the fact is that the 4 color rule applies to spinner rails also; ergo, they are not transparent.

---

Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 19, 2007, 08:27:47 PM
Okay, I understand the rule, but the clock face made black like that doesn't solve the violation of it.  I think the issue that Terra is referring to is likely the rounded portion of the clock, which creates many unique tiles.  It's actually not any fewer just because the background is blackened to a solid colour.



The spinner rails on the tiles themselves (which are only two colours more), mean that each individual tile should not be break the four-colour rule as they were.  (Even if they did, it could easily be considered a sprite layer which has some transparency (i.e. like how when Link walks over a tile, they don't turn into the same colour as him).)



I'll fix the clock, which will likely mean that it will be rather simplified, but not like that.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 20, 2007, 02:26:44 PM
bustin says that he is capable of doing sprite work, but that coming up with ideas is not his forte.



If someone wants to think up general designs/descriptions for bosses that might fit in our dungeons and look like they might be from a Zelda game, please let bustin know.



Since marioman just wants to contribute ideas, that might be something for him to think about, when the dungeonmaker isn't specific about what bosses he wants.  I might come up with a few ideas myself - not specifically for my dungeons, but for bosses that anyone could use.



There should be a Gohma variant.  Just because.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on February 20, 2007, 02:40:13 PM
Since marioman just wants to contribute ideas, that might be something for him to think about, when the dungeonmaker isn't specific about what bosses he wants.



Personally, I think that Zelda 2 is the way to go.  Here are possible boss locations:



Horse - Beach Cave

Knight - Clock Tower

Minotaur - Excavation Site

Snake - Hourglass Palace

Ghost - * Crypt

Mounted Knight - Temple of Light

Thunder Bird?? -  Ice Cavern



(Since the Thunder Bird is the first phase of the final boss fights, I am not 100% sure that we should use it.)



Gohma is already in Seasons.  I don't know if it would be a good idea to use him again.



That is about all I can offer.  If this format is used, that leaves room for about two or three totally new bosses.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 20, 2007, 02:48:32 PM
There are mini-bosses to consider as well, marioman.  Some of them could be themed to the item found in that dungeon, but some could be pretty much anything.  (When they're only going to be in a single, static pose, you could imagine that they might have something to do with the item obtained by beating them, but then again this isn't Mega Man and it's never been necessary to relate them.)



I was thinking that the Flower Gardens is likely to have a plant boss, perhaps something like the Diababa in the Forest Temple of Twilight Princess.  Probably no harm in reusing it, now in sprite form.  It could be a Deku-related boss, anyway.



Even if we do like the Zelda II bosses, I would be hesitant to use the Thunderbird too.  (Oh yeah, did we ever define what kind of character the final boss would be?  I seem to recall bustin and Terra bouncing some ideas around.  Somehow from their discussion I imagined it was a knight whose mind is twisted by the...um, night.  Like a Punch/Counterpunch (Transformers reference) knight who looks different in daytime or nighttime and is primarily influenced now by his evil nighttime side.)



bustin may want a more definite or descriptive boss list, so give it some thought.  At least, enough for him to know what he's going to draw for us.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 20, 2007, 09:00:54 PM
I started the Hourglass Palace proper, as you can see above.  The "first floor" is really the central floor, the tightest part of the hourglass.  I guess I have to find a way back up.  It will be rather simple, but I still hope to maintain the day/night mechanic.



Unfortunately we are in a really bad position, though.  Terra is dropping out of the project.



I was thinking about this on the way to work, actually...how would you guys feel if we put this off for another whole year?  Would that discourage people from doing this at all?  I've been thinking of a possible "stopgap" solution for this year which would buy us a whole twelve months to do this right.  I didn't want to have to present the question but the way things are going, especially this latest development, is really making this way too tight.



The problem is that I always felt I'd be doing the most work on this, but this is getting to be a bit much.  We have one month to go, and only two nearly-complete dungeons.  Even if it was possible to finish them and six more (I guess seven, actually) AND two overworlds, a bit more time of not rushing it would help it a lot.  And many of us expressed interest at some point, but it wasn't enough for them all to commit the time.  Does a year mean more time for us, or will that only increase the disinterest?



Comments?  Suggestions?



EDIT: I came up with a good "stopgap" solution that doesn't actually suck too badly, but I'd still like to hear comments and suggestions on this project because if we all agree that we can't do this for this year, it should still be on the plate for next year and therefore we should still continue work on it, as if there was an October Fool's Day or something.  Ideally, it'd be nice to have it done then, actually...


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on February 20, 2007, 10:34:53 PM
With Terra dropping out we practically have only three options:



1. Create a much simpler project and delay the current one to '08.

2. Finish a couple dungeons and a skeleton overworld with the excuse of "it's alpha".

3. Work without regard to our personal lives.



I personally want to "ship" a finished product, so #1 seems like a good option. However, something tells me that we're gonna procrastinate ourselves into a hole again. Either way, we're going to need to make a decision now, not later.



Anyways, one idea for a "stopgap"that I think would be pretty feasible given the time constraints would be a BS-style remake of an NES game. Contra-perhaps? I think we should avoid anything related to Zelda.

---

Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: Grizzly on February 21, 2007, 04:33:25 AM
I also am for the option to delay this project to 2008. Seeing that April is nearing quite fast and I still haven't started and looking at all the other tasks I still have to do, I am not quite sure how I could finish that without forcing me to do it. And I don't think the result would be that great then.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 21, 2007, 08:29:56 AM
RT, I have in mind a project which I think I can accomplish by myself, and I promise it won't suck too badly.



I mentioned the delay to Terra and he still wants to do the overworld now that he doesn't have to rush it.



I will speak more on this later, I'm at work right now and we're moving offices...


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: TerraEsperZ on February 21, 2007, 10:08:26 AM
I'm definitely interested in keeping it as next year's project. My interest has never been in question, just the amount of work needed in such a short time.



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 21, 2007, 12:08:01 PM
Okay, we're in agreement then.



This is now the April Fool's project for 2008.


Though I didn't initially think it was good news that Terra didn't think he could do the overworld in time, I had already been thinking that very day that we might be in over our heads.  This has led to the postponing of the project until April of next year, which sounds like a welcome decision for all of us.  Perhaps Terra was saying what we were all already thinking.



(Besides dealing with simply putting together our maps in time, this also does another thing for us...since the first April Fool's project was only two years ago and also dealt with a Game Boy Zelda game, this puts another year in between them.  More variety is nice.)



I will obviously be occupied in the next month, as I have a plan for this year's April Fool's which I intend to carry out by myself and I have enough time to do so.  So you won't see progress from me on this project in March, though I will stop by if anyone has anything to show.



We certainly have time for a breather, but I would like everyone currently involved to still continue work on their portion rather than putting this off and then picking this up again next year.  Ideally we could have this done well before this calendar year is even over.  It may be better to set a personal goal of getting it done so that this doesn't get dragged on longer than it really needs to be, and quite a difference between 39 days and 405 days might make people slack off.  We can relax, for sure, but I wouldn't put it off to the point that we're tired of it before we do further work on it.



At least the project will be less stressful and more enjoyable now.  It was never worth doing if we had to sacrifice time for a product that ended up being rushed and not as satisfactory as it could've been.



I will inform the others (Captain Drake and bustin98 and marioman and whoever else was interested) about this latest development.  In the meantime, mum's still the word!  And for a whole 'nother year.  In the meantime I may have a tiny chance to surprise you guys this April!  Maybe.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on March 02, 2007, 02:34:12 PM
Hey, Terra, I thought you were going to show us your progress on the overworld!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: TerraEsperZ on March 02, 2007, 03:43:23 PM
As I said before, I've been forced to do quite a bit of overtime recently. I only really got to work on the Hourglass Palace entrance, and even that didn't turn out like I wanted. See here for two discarded attempts:



User posted image



The 16 x 16 tile system and the relatively small size of a single map screen are making it difficult to achieve it the way I envisioned it.



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on March 03, 2007, 08:38:07 AM
Hey, that looks good.  Maybe you could make it more like an hourglass if you made an inverted pyramid top that extends from the top of the existing pyramid and extends off of the screen.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: TerraEsperZ on March 03, 2007, 10:39:34 AM
That *was* my intention, but it's not easy to do it so that it doesn't look too much like it's hand-made.



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on March 03, 2007, 11:53:44 AM
Maybe if you started the extension from the top of the stairs.  I'm no spriter, so I may be talking nonsense.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on March 10, 2007, 06:07:01 AM
Any progress?  Activity seems to have slacked off a little.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on March 14, 2007, 05:29:54 PM
That's to be expected somewhat, and I'm too busy (for obvious reasons) to kick anyone's ass right now even if I felt like it.



Let's just not forget about this.  I would rather get back to this soon after my current project so that it doesn't sit too long.  Maybe a soft deadline of October 1 is a good idea.  We would still have half a year to look things over before publishing it.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on March 22, 2007, 11:57:28 AM
At work today, the big system change was delayed to May 1.  It turned out that things were not on schedule to make it for April 1.



That sounds familiar...



In other news, I am still on track.  :P


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on March 22, 2007, 04:52:55 PM
Have you made any progress on the Hourglass Palace?  How about RT 55J's Crypt?


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on April 23, 2007, 03:00:10 PM
BUMP!  I found some more info on the game:



http://www.zeldawiki.org/The_Legend_of_Zelda:_The_Mystical_Seed_of_Courage



It has some ideas, such as the supposed name of the game and the Book of Secrets.  Don't know how accurate it is, but there you go.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on April 23, 2007, 04:33:26 PM
Yeah, I should probably say what I want to say about this project soon...  :/


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on April 23, 2007, 04:44:53 PM
I don't necessarily like the tone of that comment.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on April 28, 2007, 06:54:19 AM
Just an addendum to the last informative post.  I would think that Oracle of Secrets would not be the name that they would have given the game.  I think that that was a placeholder title that was given to Farore after the game was canceled.



However, the idea of a book as the day/night switcher wouldn't be a bad idea.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on April 29, 2007, 12:01:15 PM
TerraEsperZ has dropped out of doing the overworld.  I'm debating as to whether or not I should just do this entirely myself, or if we should be discussing other projects we could do.



There's no point to do a project that people don't want to do, and that's the vibe I get from this.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on April 29, 2007, 05:54:30 PM
I may not be one to give a valid opinion, but I would like to see it done.  I think that a little momentum was lost when the deadline for this year was not met, but I think that interest could be stirred up again.  I think that if a project of this type of potential popularity was completed, EVERYONE would know of this site.  Who knows where it could go from there.



Bottom line, the project has a good start, and I think that it would be a shame to discard the effort that has been put forth thus far.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on June 21, 2007, 06:40:58 AM
OK, I found a little info on Wikipedia that confirms the differences of the games:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Oracle_of_Seasons_and_Oracle_of_Ages



So, it seems that Ages went from color puzzles to time travel.  Also, there was definitely a game that was going to be based on Zelda II, and it was probably going to be the Courage one.  (Judging from the 2 old, 4 new format.)  This may just be old news, but it is good to confirm things.



Additionally, I notice that in the artwork for Ages/Seasons, Nayru is holding the Harp of Ages.  I am sure that I have seen artwork somewhere that shows Din holding the Rod of Seasons too.  Therefore, since Farore is holding a book, I would think that it wouldn't be that far-fetched to use the book as the Day/Night switcher.  You could collect pages for it a la Myst.  The pages could be like the different songs for the harp or the different gems for the rod.



Just a few thoughts.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on June 21, 2007, 05:25:29 PM
>_<



As it is, I truly do not know the status of this project.  Just a moment before coming into the forums, I was thinking about finding a new project that would have legs to carry it through...like the Super Mario Bros. 3 one that worked out pretty well.



As for this?  I was going to put it all on my own shoulders.  And it's still possible.  But with work the way it is, I'm not sure I'd be able to find time to continue until it's about time to decide to try this again or work on something else altogether!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on June 22, 2007, 12:18:49 PM
I haven't really done anything...



<.<;;;



/Runs



In all seriousness we might be better off just doing 3 or 4 dungeons and claim that the rest were unfinished. I've lost most of my motivation to work on this. :P

---

Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on June 22, 2007, 07:46:50 PM
My philosophy is that if you are going to do something with this great of a potential, do it right.  Then again, I am not doing the actual mapping...


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on July 17, 2007, 11:20:48 AM
Given the lack of posting in this topic I'll assume that we have all chickened out of this project.



My idea to remedy this problem is for us to make a bunch of debug rooms to "test" various aspects of the "game".



Example: http://youtube.com/watch?v=a61SoJIRP1Q



Ideas:



- Environment test

- NPC test

- Enemy test

- Item test

- Day/night cycle test

---

Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on July 17, 2007, 11:39:32 AM
At that rate, what's the point?  This is supposed to be a map prank for an entire game.  A set of debug rooms would not be as believable or publicized.  It has been done millions of times before for other games.



I still think that we need to stir up a little more interest...somehow.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: Revned on September 05, 2007, 10:43:19 PM
Umm, wasn't this supposed to be a secret?


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on September 06, 2007, 05:04:07 AM
I thought so.  Not sure what Jon is up to, but I just PMed him about it.  I'll let you know what's going on.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on September 06, 2007, 06:49:48 AM
The poll's not going to be up very long - and it's not like anyone's going to remember come April...



And sadly, I'm not sure how likely this will see the light of day in a completed form anyway.  I thought I could do this myself even giving myself another whole year but now church, work, and other commitments are making it difficult to make time for this.



If we're to continue doing April Fool's maps at all, it would be better to find something that more than one person actually wants to see completed.



I thought Super Kid Icarus was a good attempt considering it was just me and I only had a month to do it.  Maybe it didn't fool a ton of people but it must've been better than Mega Man Solid X.  (I still don't remember hearing why someone here...I think it was Revned...said he didn't like Super Kid Icarus, though.)  



But we need more collaborative projects.  I thought Zelda would be good because just about everyone must have played at least one Zelda game (or am I mistaken?).  Maybe "Oracle Of Hours" needs a revamp.  Considering how much (or how little) work has actually been done, maybe we just need reorganization.  But given the level of "meh" I'm not too sure.  While I never wanted to consider myself the "head" of the project, that's kind of what it came down to and maybe I need to "step down".



Because I run the site and I stand to "profit" the most from the hits blitz, the point of the project when it involves others should be for fun (and also learning techniques of manipulating images as I did with each project, too).  So I'd abandon OoH the instant we find something we'd all rather do and can do together.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: Revned on September 07, 2007, 09:47:40 AM
You've got half a year to finish it up. Just because people aren't working on it now doesn't mean they won't later. I didn't dislike Super Kid Icarus, I just never really liked the real Kid Icarus games.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on September 07, 2007, 10:59:39 AM
Revend, I should thank you for the Tile Slicer/Splicer if I hadn't already, 'cause that was essential in getting Super Kid Icarus done and on time.



And you said the Tile Slicer/Splicer was created because of what I did (manually!) to create the first April Fool's Project, the Link's Awakening Advance overworld map.



But I don't want every April Fool's Map Of The Month to be just me remaking a game tile by tile.  That only goes so far.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on September 07, 2007, 12:53:53 PM
@Revned:  That's exactly what I have been saying.  There is a general lack of interest for any April Fool's project at the moment.  Since there is a LOT of groundwork already completed, I am sure that there will be a lot of momentum once people get good and ready to start up again.



The only things that I see that need to be completed as far as planning goes are bosses, level details, and a few items here and there.  From there on, it will be completely visual.



I have another idea that may or may not be even the slightest bit reasonable.  It is just something that I am going to throw out there and see what happens.</disclaimer>



Would it be worthwhile to try to locate a Zelda fangame site somewhere to take the maps and actually make a game?  We could find somewhere and present the idea with the understanding that we will not do any of the actual work other than level design.  (I am sure that level design is one of the hardest parts of making a fangame.)  It would be really neat if we could have videos, screenshots, etc. and then eventually release the "official" game.



It is just something to think about, but the first (only) priority is the maps, of course.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on November 29, 2007, 10:17:39 PM
It's nearly December, which leaves four more months...



There's something I don't like about the dungeon I was working on - namely that I didn't take into much consideration about the pits...well, I suppose I could replace the openings meant to be pits with oil or something semi-fitting in a clock tower...  :P



I'm still not sure about continuing where we left off or scrapping it in favour of something else.  I wish I had time for either - the advantage of doing the Zelda one is that there kind of is a framework of ideas to build on, so we wouldn't have to do much more brainstorming.  The disadvantage is that if it's just me, then I have to make more time for it, as opposed to a project everyone is involved in and then I can just make two stages instead of eight or something.  But then of course we have to brainstorm again if we're doing something else.



Or we could have some other kind of joke, I'm still not sure.  Personally I'd like for there to be some effort put into it...not just something like "OMG the site was hacked" kind of junk.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on November 30, 2007, 01:08:20 PM
If we scrapped this idea and took a new one, we would have to brainstorm again and that would take time.  Maybe some type of perk needs to be offered to mappers who help/finish on time?


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on November 30, 2007, 05:07:48 PM
We could scale back the scope of the project like I suggested earlier.

---

Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on December 15, 2007, 05:34:37 PM
It's near the end of the year...time to put on our thinking caps!



At this point, I'm agreeing with RT 55J - it'll have to be a simpler one.



Any ideas?



If I wasn't going to be looking for another job this Christmas break, I could've put a big dent in what needed to be done to finish off LoZ:OoH...


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on December 15, 2007, 07:48:02 PM
I think that a complete set of maps would be more believable, but then again I am not the one of the actual mappers.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on December 15, 2007, 09:58:56 PM
I never said I wanted to do anything incomplete...



The easiest thing is yet another fake remake...Super Kid Icarus didn't take too long, thanks to Revned's Tile Slicer/Splicer(/Swapper)...but you can only do remakes so much, right?


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on December 15, 2007, 10:00:54 PM
imo, a complete set would be less believable, because the game was canceled at least 7 months (more likely longer) before the game was released in Japan.

---

Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: Revned on December 16, 2007, 12:00:13 PM
I'd have to agree with RT 55J. An incomplete map set would make it seem more like the real thing.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on December 16, 2007, 05:02:33 PM
A prototype should still have more than what we have.



Maybe we could do the overworlds.  There's certainly a lot of puzzlish mechanics involved in making dungeons.



Then again, there's some of that in the overworlds, of course, to force the order of dungeons and whatnot.



Hmmm...which do I like better, dungeons or overworlds?


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on December 17, 2007, 05:58:16 PM
I've made an important decision...



And that is, to get off my lazy ass and do this.  Myself, if I have to.  I think I made this ultimatum before.  But it's pretty clear now that I'm pretty much the only one with more than a passing interest in this.



ROUGH ESTIMATE TIME!

288 screens = 8 main dungeons x 36 rooms (based on an average of OoA/OoS's dungeons)

227 screens = one overworld (based on an average of the main overworlds of OoA/OoS, and the second overworld should be really easy)

---

515 screens



106 = Days until April 1



Approximately 5 screens a day?  I think I could do it.  I'll recalculate the figures but even counting a couple smaller extra dungeons, the fact that the night world is going to be more than a palette swap of the day world, and corrections, adjustments, tweaks and balances it can't be too far off.  Maybe I'll do six or seven a day to make sure I have time.



Not that I don't appreciate your guys' input so far, but the best way to avoid things getting stuck in "development hell" is to just kick the ball to get it rolling myself.  I'll start with the overworld as I imagine it and show you guys later if I need help with the dungeons later, though I plan to lay down every pixel myself at this point.



And if I don't finish the dungeons or find myself rushing them, at least I'll have the overworlds.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on December 17, 2007, 07:52:56 PM
imo, the finished product should have 6 complete dungeons and a half finished overworld to make it seem sufficiently "beta-ish". Given the fact that we already have 2 complete dungeons that can be used, that significantly would reduce your workload.

---

Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: TerraEsperZ on December 17, 2007, 08:04:39 PM
Sorry for not participating, but knowing myself, I both wouldn't accomplish much of this *and* my own multiple (and usually overly delayed) projects. Good luck all the same JonLeung :)



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on December 17, 2007, 08:06:24 PM
Great!  I will continue to give input as I can.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: Grizzly on December 18, 2007, 04:39:27 PM
I am not sure if I told this already, but I am out of this project, sorry. I do not even have enough time/delight to create normal maps and creating creative selfmade ones is way off at the moment.



But it's nice that this project is still in the makes and that you, JonLeung, will keep the ball running. Good luck and prosperity :)


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on December 18, 2007, 10:21:49 PM
Yesterday I made a rough sketch (on a grid) of how I imagine the overworld.



Today I laid the groundwork for a whole 'nother dungeon.  I selected the tiles, arranged all the rooms; I essentially set it up.  I still have to place obstacles and puzzles, obviously, but it's more than I had expected to do in one sitting.



Funny how quickly I can work when I'm suddenly motivated.  :P


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: Revned on December 18, 2007, 10:30:30 PM
Well, good luck. I'm anxious to see it come together.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on December 19, 2007, 06:50:32 AM
Wow.  That's some great progress you are making there.  Can't wait to see the finished product.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on December 24, 2007, 09:43:24 PM
I almost did an entire dungeon today!  Okay, maybe not...but at least 2/3rds, when you consider the touch-ups and the "consisticizing" and other things like that that'll come later.  And it was an early one...I imagine the later ones easily take more.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on December 27, 2007, 09:06:00 AM
Actually, there IS one thing you guys can help me with...or two...



So that my work doesn't go to waste, I'd appreciate it if you could spread the word about VGMaps.com (not about the joke, obviously, but about what this site offers) in the coming months.  I mean, more than you already are.  :P



Also, one big thing is that I've wanted is a Wikipedia article...I shouldn't be the one to write one, believe me, I've tried...


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on January 21, 2008, 06:22:56 AM
I trust this project is going well?  Can you please at least give a vague progress report?


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on January 21, 2008, 08:21:48 AM
I was debating whether or not to say, but I guess there isn't any harm in doing so.



I am nearly done five of the main dungeons.  I try to work on this every day, but some days I didn't, so I could've gotten to this point earlier.  I'd say that's good progress, but I must maintain that 'cause I'm not sure if the overworlds will actually be easier.  Part of me now is dreading them.  I need to leave time for the bosses, too...  >_<



I am not sure if I can use RT-55J's dungeon, however, whether I do or don't ultimately use it, since I do plan on detailing what I set out to do with this whole project, including individual dungeon/area descriptions, I will certainly include his dungeon in that.  After all, I can't dismiss when someone has helped me here!



And marioman will get a mention for conceiving the idea to begin with, and I'll keep this thread and mention anyone else's ideas that I do use or influenced the final product.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on January 21, 2008, 08:27:48 AM
Actually RT-55J came up with the idea.  He deserves the credit.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: Revned on January 21, 2008, 01:25:48 PM
Wow, I'm impressed. Can't wait to see the finished project.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on January 21, 2008, 09:46:47 PM
Finished the fifth just now.  It's actually the fourth dungeon (the Hourglass Pyramid).  It's simpler than the original concept, but it still works and looks pretty good.  I made some changes to the Clock Tower since you guys last saw that, too.



Each dungeon I complete gives me more confidence that this will be a really good "joke" - even if some people find it obvious, they'll have more fun "playing through" the "game" than the past ones.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on January 21, 2008, 10:57:43 PM
Keep up the good work!

---

Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on January 27, 2008, 01:15:42 PM
Would you mind if I took my dungeon and used it as a template for the Hero's Cave?

---

Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 08, 2008, 09:56:21 PM
As I explained to RT-55J in a PM, this will pretty much be my own project, in terms of what ultimately becomes part of the maps.



However, after it's been revealed as an April Fool's joke, I'll go in detail how I went about making each map, and then show RT-55J's dungeon alongside mine, as well as thank everyone even the least bit involved.  I'm certainly not going to overlook or undercredit the help that has influenced this project in some way, even if that didn't mean laying down any pixels but just throwing down ideas.



Anyway, I JUST finished the sixth dungeon (actually the seventh).  That one took way too long - I think I integrated too many puzzles.  I always forget to leave some empty space for some plain-old enemy-filled rooms...  >_<


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 18, 2008, 09:24:39 PM
Six weeks and a day to go...



I JUST finished the seventh dungeon (actually the sixth).  Hmmm, looks like that took 10 days...hopefully the last main one shouldn't take much longer.  That gives me a month to do both overworlds - and any minor dungeons I may want to include - which should be okay but still kind of tight...  I'd better pick up the pace.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on February 20, 2008, 01:58:19 PM
Awesome!  I am very excited about seeing this project finished.  Good work.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 27, 2008, 10:16:49 PM
YEAH!  I just finished the last (main) dungeon!  :D  This one took nine days, and it was the most complicated one.



I look forward to doing the overworld(s), which is of course the next thing on my plate...it'll feel less claustrophobic and I won't have to integrate so many puzzles.  Of course, there'll be the obstacles in just the right places to create the flow of the game based on accessibility, but it certainly won't be as intense as working out some of these dungeon ones.



I'll still have to put some effort into it, of course, I'm sure the overworld(s) will be a major selling point that can make or break it.



Part of me is wondering if this is worth the effort (is anyone even going to wonder about this game?) or if anyone who does get fooled will even "get" how they were fooled...but I would still be able to say that I managed to make a Zelda game, so that counts for something, right?



Methinks I'm going to have to do a major advertising campaign before April to increase the exposure...



(And is anyone able to make a VGMaps.com Wikipedia article?  Mine got rejected (you can still find it if you search on Google), and I can't post even the past April Fool's jokes in the April Fool's joke list on Wikipedia for a site that doesn't have an article...  >_<)


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on February 28, 2008, 04:30:33 AM
I think that the people on Wikipedia are Nazis.  They completely nuked just about every article relating to Metroid and consolidated all of the general information into one page.  I agree that Wikipedia needs to be accurate and concise, but they just threw away loads of relevant information that had been on the site for years.  It was probably headed up by some Halo fanboy.



You may want to try looking at articles for other gaming fansites.  I was looking at the article for Overclocked Remix the other day, and to looks like you could probably use some of the ideas there to make an "relevant" page.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on February 28, 2008, 07:05:18 AM
Though perhaps I had been needlessly specific about certain things, the template I worked from was based on the article for VGMuseum.com.  Actually, it's what made me believe I should have one.  Since my site and ReyVGM's site have similarities in terms of content, I figured I could have one too.  Apparently not.  Is VGMaps.com not "big" enough?  Well, we'll finally hit a million hits soon...that should say something, even if it did take this long.  :P  I think the reason for rejection was that it didn't demonstrate how my web site is important or something.  Maybe if I hadn't, I should've made mention of how it's the biggest collection of screenshot maps on the web...it must be, isn't it?  GameFAQs has some maps, even screenshot ones, but their focus still seems to be text walkthroughs...



Also, if someone else made a Wiki page I'd be able to see how my site is seen in the eyes of someone else; I may be too biased and know too much irrelevant stuff about it.  I shouldn't be making the article, as its founder and maintainer anyway.  Anyone want to take a shot at it?  :P


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on February 29, 2008, 01:14:29 PM
If you give a look at the OCRemix page, you might get some more ideas.  It gives information on the founding of OCRemix, its purpose, projects, submission standards, community, etc.  Sure some of the sections may be a little small, but I would say that most of those headings could hold substantial information.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on March 02, 2008, 04:31:14 PM
I'm debating whether or not I want to stop regular submission updates for all of March to get this done.  I shouldn't have to be starting this on the weekend at 4:30 PM on Sunday.  >_<



Okay, I did a lot yesterday, before I got around to doing the weekly update, so it shouldn't've taken this long.  But it still takes at least a day to put up like a hundred maps...a day that I could spend doing my thing.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on March 02, 2008, 06:30:10 PM
If you convinced somebody to revamp the site to use a fancy database system, I'm sure nobody would care about the lack of updates.

---

Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on March 02, 2008, 07:28:12 PM
Huh?  Why wouldn't you care about updates?



Jon, if you just stop updating, people may think that something is up.  Scaled-back updates may be the way to go.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on March 02, 2008, 08:43:05 PM
I finished making the town.  It was fun!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: Revned on March 02, 2008, 08:44:53 PM
marioman Said:
Huh?  Why wouldn't you care about updates?



Jon, if you just stop updating, people may think that something is up.  Scaled-back updates may be the way to go.

It's only 4 weeks, it's happened before and nobody freaked out.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on March 05, 2008, 07:50:32 AM
Skipping a week has been rare lately though.  Not updating for a month is something that probably happened in like 2004 or something.  Though probably the one person most likely to freak out would be Will Mallia.  :P



I submitted a Wikipedia VGMaps.com article yesterday (while at work...oops...but it's not like I could work on this project then!) which was rejected for sounding too much like an advertisement.  I moved some portions around, rephrased some things, and for now omitted the "Projects" and some of the more self-congratulatory "History" parts.  We'll see if this is neutral enough to make the cut...  



(EDIT: Rejected again!  Almost feel like I should just copy VGMuseum's article...  >_<)



(EDIT: Twice in one day!  Someone else should do it, maybe that's the problem... >_<)



I think I will have to do scaled-back updates.  Submissions of linear games with sequential stage numbers are easy.  Mega Man maps are easy.  Maps for games that already have some maps are easy.  But making entirely new sections or trying to edit out the title on a difficult screen for a new game - those are time-consuming enough that maybe I'll sit on those ones...



I'm sure I'll have something presentable by April 1...but I wish it wasn't so tight.  Cutting back updates may be necessary for the polish that I would like on this.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on March 07, 2008, 07:19:45 AM
25 days left!  Still on schedule!  Doing good!  (Even if I do spend all of Sunday afternoon and evening playing Super Smash Bros. Brawl's Subspace Emissary!  :P)



This is going to be awesome, making the overworld is making the game more alive than when it was just dungeons.



After working on this for months, it's hard to believe that in three and a half weeks, it's going to be over one way or another!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on March 10, 2008, 06:25:09 AM
On Saturday, I actually had the whole day to myself for the first time in who knows how long, so I worked extra hard on it, especially considering that I knew I couldn't resist playing some Super Smash Bros. Brawl at some point on Sunday.  I'm happy about how things are shaping up.



Unfortunately some things seem to be lining up to take some time away from me on the evenings during the week (and they're not Brawl...boy am I glad the game came out yesterday instead of today like I was told...that would be doubly frustrating) but I see no reason why I shouldn't still be able to make it on time.



But don't be surprised if I have to skip another weekend update.  There's only three weekends left...


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on March 22, 2008, 06:35:10 AM
10 days.  Good luck.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on March 22, 2008, 11:55:55 AM
Thanks for the good luck wishes!



I suppose you want an update.



Overworld (Day version) is only a few screens from being done.  That will probably be done in no more than a couple hours.  Then here's what's left:



1. "Animal Companion regions" - seven screens times three, maybe I'll get that done today

2. dungeon entrances

3. adding that thing where you're allowed to change night/day in several areas

4. various touch-ups and checks

5. conversion to Night version (shouldn't be too hard)

6. adding bosses and Essences to dungeons

7. adding titles, my name, possible watermarking, etc.

8. final check

9. publish!



If I can do a task a day on average (most of those look like they wouldn't take a whole day, which is good since bosses might be the one to take more than one), then I'm going to make it.  :)


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on March 23, 2008, 08:02:19 PM
I apologize in advance for my horrific skills at spriting, that the dungeon entrances may have to end up being modified/palette-adjusted versions of existing dungeon entrances, and that I may have to cut out bosses altogether, as there may not be enough time to do them decently.  >_<



How come these April Fool's projects ALWAYS come right down to the wire?


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on March 25, 2008, 06:02:17 AM
This is all that remains:



1. conversion to Night version (just need to figure out palette swap)

2. adding bosses and Essences to dungeons

3. adding titles, my name, possible watermarking, etc.

4. final check

5. publish!



Actually, I may be able to get the bosses done after all, but I think the majority of them are going to have to be modified sprites from other games, rather than originals.  Thanks goodness I have a lot of maps to choose from, hopefully enough with potentially editable-into-Zeldaesque-form bosses.



The overworlds are probably pretty close to being done.  The Night world is a modified Day world, but I'm experimenting with brightness and RGB settings for it.  I've tried decreasing the brightness and increasing the blue.  I think I probably need to increase the blue a lot more while also decreasing the red and green.  I may have to do blue things (ie. the water) separately as it actually gets brighter when I increase the blue value.  >_>


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on March 31, 2008, 06:16:46 AM
Probably the last update before it's done...



Well, it practically is done.  I just need to do some minor things that have been bugging me that no one else would probably notice, and then a final check and there we go.  Today is a weekday, so I can't do any of that until I get home from work, which means that, just like every single year, it comes right down to the wire!  0_0



I think there are some interesting things about the maps that I might comment on in detail, a few days later, if anyone else might also find them neat.



I plan to mention this on GoNintendo and maybe some other similar sites tomorrow morning and watch the hits go right up.  Or at least more than with past years' jokes.  I see this as bigger than the past April Fool's jokes; it's going to be tough to top this one, but it's likely not going to be dethroned without a team effort, as this has been months of work.  I can already hear some people questioning whether it was worth the effort.  (Of course, people doubting that someone would put in the effort into this will help sell the joke.)  I guess we'll see very shortly if all these months of daily copying/pasting/editing/palette swapping/etc. is worth it!



Then we'll decide if this a tradition worth keeping.  DUN DUN DUN!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on March 31, 2008, 03:52:05 PM
Nice.  It took two years, but it is now going to be a reality.  Congratulations.


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on March 31, 2008, 10:09:41 PM
256th post!



FINALLY DONE!



I'm going to bed, since it's past 11 PM.  Could it get any closer?  o_0


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: RT 55J on March 31, 2008, 10:16:22 PM
Sweet. The maps dungeons (from a cursory glance) look much more cohesive than most of what I could come up with. If you want, I could write a little blurb tomorrow about the project and the little dungeon I made.



also, lol Falsia.

---

Dot? Dot. Dot!


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: JonLeung on March 31, 2008, 11:25:32 PM
I will certainly talk more about the project, and also show your dungeon with your blurb.  Give me a couple days, I need a break from thinking about this...phew...



Up until the other day, the name was going to be "Falosia".  But "Falsia" doesn't only imply "false" - there's more to it than that.  But who will figure it out first?



There's no Hero's Cave or original bosses because I literally ran out of time.  I just barely finished with less than an hour to spare (at least in my time zone).  Proodyl's Fortress was entirely made in one sitting on Sunday - I didn't even think I'd be able to make it at all!



But lots more about that later.  I SERIOUSLY need to go to bed now, it's almost half past midnight and I have to get up in five hours for work...


Title: RE: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic
Post by: marioman on April 01, 2008, 03:29:34 AM
Great job Jon.  I am glad to see this project completed.