VGMaps

General Boards => Map Gab => Topic started by: marioman on June 01, 2008, 07:50:02 pm

Title: Interesting Obeservation (Zelda)
Post by: marioman on June 01, 2008, 07:50:02 pm: With the submission of the Minish Cap maps this weekend, I believe that every mappable Zelda game is available on VGMaps. (With the exception of those non-canon CDI games.) Rejoice!
Title: RE: Interesting Obeservation (Zelda)
Post by: TerraEsperZ on June 01, 2008, 08:30:21 pm: It's been so long since I've been waiting for the Hyrule map for The Minish Cap, I'm so happy!

(I happen to have a sort of fetish for hyrule maps, by the way)

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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard

Current projects: ?????? (Gen), Sonic The Hedgehog (Gen), Sonic CD (Sega CD), Mega Man V (GB), Mega Man Zero (GBA), Battletoads (NES), Bucky O'Hare (NES)
Title: RE: Interesting Obeservation (Zelda)
Post by: RT 55J on June 01, 2008, 08:57:28 pm: Now that we have all the dungeons and overworlds, why don't we do the cave systems?

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"its a good day to do what has to be done by me and help my brother to defeat the enemys" - John Freeman
Title: RE: Interesting Obeservation (Zelda)
Post by: JonLeung on June 02, 2008, 07:40:35 am: marioman Said:
With the submission of the Minish Cap maps this weekend, I believe that every mappable Zelda game is available on VGMaps. (With the exception of those non-canon CDI games.) Rejoice!

Nope. Four Swords (GBA) hasn't been mapped.
Title: RE: Interesting Obeservation (Zelda)
Post by: TerraEsperZ on June 02, 2008, 09:45:58 am: Four Swords is a special case in that in requires at least two players to start, and from what I've heard, the stages are quite random. Supposedly, the setting of the stage is randomly chosen from a few different one, and then a specific part of that setting is also chosen at random. Mapping it would require playing through the game many, many times to cover all the potential stage settings and dungeon parts.

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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard

Current projects: ?????? (Gen), Sonic The Hedgehog (Gen), Sonic CD (Sega CD), Mega Man V (GB), Mega Man Zero (GBA), Battletoads (NES), Bucky O'Hare (NES)
Title: RE: Interesting Obeservation (Zelda)
Post by: marioman on June 02, 2008, 02:44:31 pm: TerraEsperZ said:

from what I've heard, the stages are quite random. Supposedly, the setting of the stage is randomly chosen from a few different one, and then a specific part of that setting is also chosen at random.

I believe that is correct. I know for a fact that the levels change based on how many players you have, but from what I hear the levels are random.
Title: RE: Interesting Obeservation (Zelda)
Post by: JonLeung on June 02, 2008, 02:47:12 pm: It's been a while since I played through it, and I only did it once, so I don't really remember. Kind of sad, that.

Doesn't the tutorial stage (which is like half the game) have a main hub-like area which isn't random?

I also liked Four Swords Adventures (GameCube), but I only did that once too. Funny thing is, we delivered the final blow on Ganon (as if that's a spoiler, honestly) and then one of the GBAs we were using ran out of battery power right as the ending started. A message came up saying that because the GBA was done for, the game would reset, so we had to play the last stage again. Of all the possible times for that to happen! And the reset was pointless, especially since the ending would've played out fine even without two players actively controlling. Sheesh. I guess it extended the gameplay by a little bit, but it still felt like a slap in the face. :P
Title: RE: Interesting Obeservation (Zelda)
Post by: Rew on June 03, 2008, 08:30:50 am: I wonder if anyone's going to take on either one of the daunting FS or FSA maps? =P

Also, mapping the cave systems for the other games sounds like something that could prove very useful indeed. (No matter how much I play Zelda, I always get lost in those caves...)

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"So this is what it's like..."

- Spark Mandrill
Title: RE: Interesting Obeservation (Zelda)
Post by: Ryan Ferneau on June 19, 2008, 03:40:16 am: http://www.spriters-resource.com/nintendo/zelda/fs/ Spriters' Resource got the ball rolling by mapping one possible dungeon for each of the three starting worlds in Four Swords, as well as the boss rooms.
Title: RE: Interesting Obeservation (Zelda)
Post by: marioman on June 19, 2008, 05:23:07 am: Interesting. How many possible dungeons are there?
Title: RE: Interesting Obeservation (Zelda)
Post by: Rew on June 19, 2008, 07:17:35 am: I don't think anyone knows. =P

You can play that game over and over and over again, and *still* come across dungeon arrangements that you've never seen before.

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"So this is what it's like..."

- Spark Mandrill
Title: RE: Interesting Obeservation (Zelda)
Post by: Ryan Ferneau on July 01, 2008, 02:50:08 am: Hmm, maybe if you diddled with the random number generator...
Title: RE: Interesting Obeservation (Zelda)
Post by: Maxim on July 01, 2008, 07:59:00 am: Yes, you can map the result of every possible random permutation for randomly-generated games but the resulting hundreds of maps are not necessarily interesting. If the random number is just 16 bits then there will be over 65,000 maps. It'd be like mapping Populous.
Title: RE: Interesting Obeservation (Zelda)
Post by: Ryan Ferneau on July 03, 2008, 11:34:17 pm: Well you wouldn't have to map every combination, would you? I think you only need to show all the parts and how they would fit together.
Title: RE: Interesting Obeservation (Zelda)
Post by: Eggz on July 04, 2008, 04:46:47 am: ...which would still result in hundreds of maps instead of thousands. Overall it's redundant. If the maps are randomly generated each time, there's really no point in mapping then at all, and just having a collection of all the map pieces is kind of pointless if you don't know which combination you'll come across.

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This looks like a job for Science!
Title: RE: Interesting Obeservation (Zelda)
Post by: DarkWolf on July 04, 2008, 06:38:44 am: Since maps of random levels wouldn't be interesting and random dungeon maps aren't usually too hard to beat, I don't think it would be worth while.
Title: RE: Interesting Obeservation (Zelda)
Post by: Maxim on July 04, 2008, 07:51:34 am: Having said that, I wouldn't mind mapping a level or two from Populous. It's a classic big-world-small-window game and it'd be nice to see a whole level in one go.
Title: RE: Interesting Obeservation (Zelda)
Post by: TerraEsperZ on July 04, 2008, 02:25:43 pm: Going back to Four Swords and what I've read in various FAQs, each of the three Epic basically has something like three different possible "settings" (main map) and each of those has a location where one of four or five different "parts" will appear.

Assuming someone was capable of emulating Four Swords with multiplayer and everything and putting aside minor variations due to the number of players, and could manage to access all the variations, you could simply it like in the Nintendo Power guide for the game: show the 3 main maps for each epic with an empty square, and beside it show the 4 or 5 possible parts that can theoretically fill that square.

I tried to do it once using no$gba which supports multiple Game Boys on the same computer, but either my rom was corrupt or the version I was using wasn't emulating the game correctly, leading to garbled graphics and the multiplayer not being detected.

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Current projects: Ristar-The Shooting Star (Gen), Sonic The Hedgehog (Gen), Sonic CD (Sega CD), Mega Man Zero (GBA), Battletoads (NES), Bucky O'Hare (NES)
Title: RE: Interesting Obeservation (Zelda)
Post by: marioman on July 04, 2008, 06:25:39 pm: VBA Link should do it. I have seen some videos of people playing FS using it, so I would assume that it works.
Title: RE: Interesting Obeservation (Zelda)
Post by: Zeric on July 04, 2008, 07:13:13 pm: Yes VBA Link works, I did a part of the two player tutorial stage of Four Swords a very long time ago but I stoped working on it shortly after.

If you're planing on mapping it Terra I wish you luck.

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Current Projects: Akumajo Dracula (X6800 - Final Stage) Mega Man X2 (SNES Sigma 2) Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow (GBA - 83%)
Title: RE: Interesting Obeservation (Zelda)
Post by: DarkWolf on July 05, 2008, 01:20:23 pm: (Off topic)

Forget Populous; I'd rather map Power Monger. Unfortunately the screens don't fit together (at least on the Genesis version) so hacking and rendering would be required.
Title: RE: Interesting Obeservation (Zelda)
Post by: Ryan Ferneau on July 05, 2008, 10:49:27 pm: NO$GBA also emulates Four Swords correctly for me, so maybe there was an update somewhere that fixed it.