VGMaps

General Boards => Map Gab => Topic started by: alucard on December 25, 2008, 06:24:43 pm

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: alucard on December 25, 2008, 06:24:43 pm

How about all the maps from Super Castlevania IV?  That would be awesome

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: TerraEsperZ on December 25, 2008, 07:58:37 pm

I mapped Stage 0 and 1 a few years back (see this thread) just to see how hard it would be and I quickly gave up any hope of going further. I really hate SNES mapping because when you disable a graphic layer like the background, it is usually replaced by the color black which is this game, is shared with other layers. So it becomes incredibly difficult to separate the foreground from the rest to make a good-looking map.



Maybe if one of the usual SNES emulator gave you the option to choose the color that will replace the background when removed, it would be doable. Otherwise, you're stuck using approximation when removing pixels, or resorting to third-party programs to explore the video memory contained in emulator savestates.



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Current projects: Bucky O'Hare (NES), Metal Storm (NES), Clock Tower (SNES), Ristar-The Shooting Star (Gen), Sonic The Hedgehog (Gen), Sonic CD (Sega CD), Mega Man Zero (GBA), Battletoads (NES)

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: Tropicon on December 25, 2008, 08:30:18 pm

I'll give it a shot.  SNES is supposed to be my thing after all.

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: JonLeung on December 25, 2008, 08:56:20 pm

Good luck!



As you can see in the Super NES Game Atlas topic, other than Disney games and the incomplete Yoshi's Island, the biggest lack is Super Castlevania IV.  If you manage to map it, I would love to have them here on VGMaps.com!

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: TerraEsperZ on December 25, 2008, 08:58:11 pm

I honestly wish you good luck! Hopefully you can achieve more than I did and most importantly, have fun doing it :)



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Current projects: Bucky O'Hare (NES), Metal Storm (NES), Clock Tower (SNES), Ristar-The Shooting Star (Gen), Sonic The Hedgehog (Gen), Sonic CD (Sega CD), Mega Man Zero (GBA), Battletoads (NES)

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: Will on December 26, 2008, 01:38:41 am

I see you enjoy SNES more than anything else. In fact the Super Nintendo section has the biggest number of maps than any other system. Break a leg Tropicon.

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: Tropicon on December 26, 2008, 10:53:49 am

Well that wasn't to hard.  In situations like these you just have to let the black go and repaint it where ever it belongs.  I do the rest of the level before I post and move on.

http://www.vgmapper.com/SysSNES/C/Castlevania4Example.png

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: TerraEsperZ on December 26, 2008, 12:19:51 pm

That's my problem; I hate not knowing exactly where black belongs and where it doesn't. Sometimes it's easy to tell, and sometimes it isn't, and my perfectionist streak tortures me when I have to "fudge it".



But anyway, you did this quickly! Will you bother completing the missing bottom line of the maps? I'm asking because apparently the real SNES doesn't render one line out of every screen (usually the bottom one I've been told by the ZSNES coders). But even if you don't, I hope you manage to fully map this. This game has always been one of the most interesting Castlevania visually, even if sometimes it feels like it was done just to sell people on the idea of buying a SNES (lots of transparencies, a rotating room and corridor, etc) which was brand new at the time.



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Current projects: Bucky O'Hare (NES), Metal Storm (NES), Clock Tower (SNES), Ristar-The Shooting Star (Gen), Sonic The Hedgehog (Gen), Sonic CD (Sega CD), Mega Man Zero (GBA), Battletoads (NES)

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: Will on December 26, 2008, 01:24:21 pm

Nobody ever told me one horizantal axis line of every screenshot goes missing in Zsnes. I hope I haven't come a problem like this. As for the black problem, I coped with it best in Mario & Wario. Perhaps Terra you can refrain the problem of where original black bits belong by taking a screenshot with the background and another without (unless you've already tried that).

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: JonLeung on December 26, 2008, 03:56:23 pm

The resolution of the Super NES is 256 x 224.  That equates to exactly 16 x 14 tiles (of 16 x 16 pixels each).  It's the same as the NES.



(When the title of a game isn't too long, 256 x 224 is also the resolution of the Maps Of The Month front page image.)



Some versions of ZSNES seemed to omit a line, whether deliberate or not.  Maybe there's a setting that can be toggled for that; I can't remember the last time I looked.

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: alucard on December 26, 2008, 04:26:45 pm

Tropicon Said:

Well that wasn't to hard.  In situations like these you just have to let the black go and repaint it where ever it belongs.  I'll do the rest of the level before I post and move on.

http://www.vgmapper.com/SysSNES/C/Castlevania4Example.png

that's awesome, thanks. Will you be doing every single stage?  I wish I knew how to do these, but it looks like Super Castlevania IV would not be a good game for beginners to map

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: Tropicon on December 26, 2008, 06:29:27 pm

I redid the first few rooms so the pallets would match.  All of stage 1 will be completed and posted later tonight.  What a pain in the ass.  I had on idea the Konami guys were trying to be so cute with their muitl layered backgrounds.  Had to use quite a few of my fancier tricks.  



OK Terra, to find out where the black belongs try one of these two tricks.  Flip the background on and off quickly and the flashing pixels will reveal the right locations.  Find an area with a bright background, or a flash, and use a code to lock it in place then go back to the area you want to map.  You must be younger then me because I remember agonizing over this years ago.  A little more EXP and it won't be an issue.



As for the bottom line, yeah I got it.  But I may throw it out, I think it's just a black line.  I have noticed some blocks and pillars are shored up with a black line below or to their right.  I'll do another scan to find out if it's totally useless



I'll do as many stages as I can but I have other things to do.  And no this is not for beginners.  It's got a whole deck of cards up it's sleeves.  I sprited this game long ago and it was murder then.  If you want to make a formal requests then go to my site and use the request system: www.vgmapper.com  Then I have to do them.

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: Tropicon on December 26, 2008, 07:38:30 pm

Ok #1 is up:

http://www.vgmapper.com/SysSNES/C/Castlevania4.html

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: TerraEsperZ on December 26, 2008, 09:41:19 pm

Will, after taking a good look through old posts on the subject on the ZSNES message board, I'm not so sure anymore. I'm fairly certain from what I've read that the real SNES (and the more accurate emulators) does not render one scanline out of all 224, probably the bottom one. ZSNES presently doesn't render it and makes it all black (something the coders are aware of and are trying to fix) but even if it was displayed, it would most likely be garbage, have wrong colors, etc.



The important thing is that if you want complete tiles on your map, you have to remember that missing line at the bottom and thus must use other utilities like VSNES or BGMapper to capture the entire graphic memory from a savestate. I've had to do this for one of the game I'm working on (Clock Tower) which had the bottom line from every room missing. It was painstakingly long and boring to do, so only bother if complete accuracy is important to you.



Tropicon, I don't know if I'm younger than you or not (probably not, I'm slowly becoming an old geezer!) but the rapid switch method doesn't always work well for me. Especially with games with suck dark colors in the backgrounds like SCIV. Using codes to lock a layer in place is an intriguing idea, though I have no idea how to accomplish that, especially if it requires playing around with the game's memory. Please educate me :)



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Current projects: Bucky O'Hare (NES), Metal Storm (NES), Clock Tower (SNES), Ristar-The Shooting Star (Gen), Sonic The Hedgehog (Gen), Sonic CD (Sega CD), Mega Man Zero (GBA), Battletoads (NES)

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: Tropicon on December 27, 2008, 10:21:05 am

Here's the a chunk of the map you did and a similar chunk from the one I did.  I removed 1 bottom line because it was all black so since you're missing two your machine is cutting off the two final lines.  The blocks are an example how the full tiles should look and how they get cut off.



http://www.vgmapper.com/SysSNES/C/Castlevania4Example2.png



BGMapper catches it but I don't have time to make so many conversions.  In any case this changes things.  I already have a giant project to work on; the nightmare on elm street map.  I'll do more analysis to check if background has to be manipulated into the final two lines and to see if I can't find a light code.

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: alucard on December 27, 2008, 10:27:46 am

Tropicon Said:

Ok #1 is up:

http://www.vgmapper.com/SysSNES/C/Castlevania4.html

The site is down. I looked at your site yesterday and it worked fine, but now it says:



You are not authorized to view this page

The Web server you are attempting to reach has a list of IP addresses that are not allowed to access the Web site, and the IP address of your browsing computer is on this list.

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: Tropicon on December 27, 2008, 06:22:06 pm

Is it doing that again?  Last time it did it to me.  The server was recently updated and it's still on the fritz.  Give it a day or two and it should be back to normal.



In the mean time I finished the first section of Stage 2.  This is one rough game to map I was having an easer time with DKC2.  At least my tricks are working.



7E00BD81: invincibility

7E148803: freeze certain background animations

7E2200FF: turn the background bright red

7E1298C0: camera scrolls down

7E128A46: camera scrolls right

7E1280**: fix the camera wherever you want

7E055E00: elevator jump

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: JonLeung on December 27, 2008, 10:55:22 pm

Tropicon, are your maps for VGMapper.com, or will you be contributing them to VGMaps.com as well?

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: Tropicon on December 28, 2008, 11:56:52 am

You want em?  Which ones do you want?  Is there some sort of uploading thing here like at GameFAQs?



Finished the second part of stage 2, this map is gonna be huge.  There are so many bugs in this game's graphics I could rant for hours about it.

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: alucard on December 28, 2008, 02:36:18 pm

Your site is back up, awesome job on Stage 1, thanks for making that map.  I made an official request for all stages of Super Castlevania IV to be mapped on your site if possible.  I wish I could do it but like you said that game would be too difficult for a beginner to map.

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: JonLeung on December 28, 2008, 04:46:32 pm

Well, ideally I'd like all the maps you talk about here on these forums, but most especially the Super Castlevania IV maps.



You can send them to my email, that's how I've always accepted contributions.

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: Tropicon on December 28, 2008, 05:48:31 pm

Stage 2 is up (same link as stage 1).

Well let's see what have I talked about.  Castlevania 4, Castlevania 4, Nightmare on Elm Street, Brain Lord, Eco Quest and Space Quest... was that all?  I think that was all.  I'll send them to you.

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: alucard on December 28, 2008, 11:26:22 pm

Stage 2 looks great, I am excited about getting these maps because I have the maps for most of the Castlevania games except for Super Castlevania IV and some of the newer ones. I will keep checking back for more stages, thanks for making these.

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: Tropicon on December 29, 2008, 11:24:04 am

No problem alucard, oh and if you're the one who made the requests at my site for future reference would you only request one map at a time.  I don't care if you fill up all the slots with individual level requests it's just kind of an overload when people ask for "everything".  That's a lot of work.



Anyway stage 3 is funny.  It's a long room, then a tall room, then 3 short rooms and another tall room.  I'm probably going to stack them like an accordion.

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: alucard on December 29, 2008, 09:14:05 pm

Oh I'm sorry I did not know requesting worked that way. Yes I was the one who requested them all, I think you had said to do that on a previous post. I can go back and re-request them individually if its easier for your site. I remember Stage 3 being the Cave and Water levels, I am sure those will look good. What you have done so far looks great, thanks.

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: Tropicon on December 30, 2008, 11:18:21 am

Don't worry about it.  What I meant was to fill in each slot with an individual level request, like what that guy just did with the DKC2 requests.  When somebody asks for everything I just do one level from the group listed and take the request down.  I've found that trying to do a whole game at once causes massive burn out, just like I'm starting to struggle with the Nightmare on Elm street map now.  Instead I just try to see it as moving on to the next map and if that's the next level in the same game it's just a coincidence.  I only ever did a whole game 3 times, with Hexen, Ogre Battle, and Soul Blazer.

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: Tropicon on December 30, 2008, 06:01:00 pm

Stage 3 is up, time for a break.

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: alucard on January 03, 2009, 12:04:23 am

Stage 3 looks awesome. I forgot how big that stage was until I saw this map, thanks again Tropicon.

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: Tropicon on January 04, 2009, 11:26:32 pm

4 is up.  Had to work a little magic to make the background work so it's not something you could actually see in the game.

Title: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: Tropicon on January 05, 2009, 09:02:27 pm

5 is up.  Tiny and pointless.  Stage 6 is a whopping 8 rooms so don't expect any miracles.

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: alucard on January 05, 2009, 11:10:54 pm

Awesome once again. I always liked the forest parts of this game, Stage 5 looks good. I forget what Stage 6 looks like, but I know there are some large stages up ahead.

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: Tropicon on January 06, 2009, 03:50:43 pm

6 is nothing but horizontals, just like stage 1.  Easy! That's 2 in a row.

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: Tropicon on January 06, 2009, 07:07:59 pm

So easy in fact that I finished it in a day, Stage 6 is up.

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: RT 55J on January 07, 2009, 10:24:45 pm

You missed the secret room in Stage 6. IIRC, you find it by whipping the floor in the room after the chandeliers. (Also, keep in mind that there's a bonus room in Stage 9 too (the treasure level)).



Also, I found it practically impossible to make sense of the arrangement of screens in your Stage 7 map.

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"its a good day to do what has to be done by me and help my brother to defeat the enemys" - John Freeman

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: Tropicon on January 08, 2009, 10:11:38 am

8 is up.  Damn, Ok I'll go back for that.  Sorry about stage 7 but a level that likes to go up and down doesn't realistically fit on a map that also has vertical rooms.  It would've have more white space then stage 3.

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: alucard on January 08, 2009, 11:40:11 pm

yeah he is right, there is a secret room at the bottom of Stage 6, I totally forgot about that one.  It has a bunch of power-up stuff in it. Wow, stage 8 already, only a few more to go.

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: Tropicon on January 09, 2009, 10:07:52 am

Stage 9 is done.  Both secret rooms added.

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: JonLeung on January 09, 2009, 10:42:50 am

Thanks for officially submitting everything to VGMaps.com that you've mentioned in these forums so far, Tropicon.  I'm behind on all these maps since I returned to work after the holidays and I'll be at PLAY! A Video Game Symphony tonight but I'll do my best to have them up this weekend.

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: Tropicon on January 09, 2009, 03:26:16 pm

A is done.  Speaking of which did you miss one?  I got an automated email saying that one of them didn't go through.

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: JonLeung on January 09, 2009, 04:20:36 pm

Well, let's see...I've received 4-8 and A.  I must've missed 9, and if any were resent due to corrections, then I didn't receive those either.

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: TerraEsperZ on January 09, 2009, 05:00:11 pm

Looks great so far, even though it unfortunately reveals how *unimpressive* the graphics really are when not in motion. Even though it was really impressive when it first came out, I find that the various tiles look a bit messy, almost like Dracula's Curse on the NES.



As for the maps, my only criticism is that the stage sections are not assembled to give an idea of the general layout. It would probably make the file size a bit bigger but the maps would gain a lot in readability. I agree with RT 55J in that regard.



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Current projects: Bucky O'Hare (NES), Metal Storm (NES), Clock Tower (SNES), Ristar-The Shooting Star (Gen), Sonic The Hedgehog (Gen), Sonic CD (Sega CD), Mega Man Zero (GBA), Battletoads (NES)

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: Tropicon on January 09, 2009, 08:45:18 pm

Bingo.  I'l resend 9.  And the changed 6.



Heh heh heh, "you're doin' it wrong".  I get this a lot.  You can never please people.  I don't copyright my raw maps for a good reason.  Anyone who wants to fiddle with them can, in any way they want.  That and if the image is more or less how it appeared in the game it's not really my creation to copyright.  So if you want to change it be my guest, may map is your canvas.  Lastly these maps were made for alucard, his request his call.

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: TerraEsperZ on January 09, 2009, 10:21:41 pm

Please don't take my comment as me saying you're "doing it wrong!". I guess I simply missed your main goal which is different from what we usually see around the site, and that is to provide requested map from people.



(You've no doubt noticed that despite there being a request forum here, most regulars will keep mapping their own thing and ignore them completely).



You're right that your maps are "raw" and that people are free to do with them as they please. But personally I wouldn't feel right touching someone else's maps, even with their approval. I'm just so used to doing it by myself and I guess I'd feel like a fraud coming up and showing off the result of hours of work on your part and minutes of mine.



My suggestion was merely me expressing my preference for assembled and organized maps that make the stages look like they were real places and all. That, and assembled Castlevania maps are among my favourites :).



So no hard feelings I hope, and I hope you stay for a while. You're providing an essential service!



(And you work fast damn it! I avoid SNES mapping mostly because the tools slow down the work too much for me)



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Current projects: Bucky O'Hare (NES), Metal Storm (NES), Clock Tower (SNES), Ristar-The Shooting Star (Gen), Sonic The Hedgehog (Gen), Sonic CD (Sega CD), Mega Man Zero (GBA), Battletoads (NES)

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: Tropicon on January 10, 2009, 10:42:20 am

B's up and that's that.  Jon, I got another error message from my email.  Appearently it just wont let me send stage 9, can you get it off my site instead?



Terra don't feel bad about messing with my stuff, go right ahead.  And it's funny you should say that, for me it takes more time to do non SNES maps.

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: alucard on January 11, 2009, 01:01:12 pm

Tropicon, you are finished with CV4 now correct?  This is all of them right? Thanks you for making these so fast, you did a great job on them. Castlevania fans are going to love these maps for years to come.

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: Tropicon on January 11, 2009, 02:42:00 pm

I'm glad.  I do what I can.

Overall this wasn't as hard as it could have been.  Mapping wise I wouldn't put this under max difficulty but close to it.  If you need anything else just ask.  In the meantime I'll try to hit other unanswered requests here and of course get back to work on my site.

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: Will on January 11, 2009, 03:00:55 pm

If requests don't come up frequently, what will you do next Tropicon? Definitely something Super Nintendo.

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: Tropicon on January 11, 2009, 03:53:28 pm

Are you kidding, there are 20 threads in map requests that I intend to take a shot at not counting this one.  I have a bunch of N64 maps on my site that have been giving me trouble for a while now.  And one guy has been sending requests for DKC2 at such regular intervals I'm sure he intends for me to eventually map out the entire game.



I can't do the arcade request because I'm no good with arcade.  BTW I see you're doing Aladdin?  Are you using scroll codes?  Since I discovered them mapping's been a breeze and I could try and make a couple if you're interested.

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: TerraEsperZ on January 11, 2009, 03:57:16 pm

Tropicon, we really need you to make a thread about those scroll codes of yours, how and/or where you get them. By the way, thanks for completing this game :)



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Current projects: Bucky O'Hare (NES), Metal Storm (NES), Clock Tower (SNES), Ristar-The Shooting Star (Gen), Sonic The Hedgehog (Gen), Sonic CD (Sega CD), Mega Man Zero (GBA), Battletoads (NES)

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: JonLeung on January 11, 2009, 04:12:37 pm

Okay, they're all up now.  Great job, Tropicon!

Title: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: Tropicon on January 11, 2009, 05:57:39 pm

Nooo problem.  I'll make a thread about scroll and camera control.

Title: Re: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: JonLeung on September 09, 2015, 11:00:39 am

Perhaps it might seem weird to ask this over five and a half years later, but can we revisit what TerraEsperZ suggested about having them arranged a bit more intuitively, and if I may add, to have them labelled?

I love the idea of Tropicon's style of making raw maps (they are certainly useful if you want to use the graphics for something) but I also really feel like Super Castlevania IV is deserving of maps with a little more functionality to it.  We can certainly have both kinds here (as we have for other games).  Is anyone up for it?

Title: Re: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: TerraEsperZ on September 09, 2015, 05:55:59 pm

If no one else wants to step up to the plate, I *might* give it a go once my new computer is finally assembled and functional. Seriously, I haven't been able to do any serious mapping for the last year since my 8 years old PC is on its last leg...

Title: Re: RE: Super Castlevania IV
Post by: TerraEsperZ on September 10, 2015, 09:04:41 am

It would still entail a lot of additional work I simply wouldn't have the time for. Candles, moving objects and bosses would have to bee added at a minimum, plus there's that missing bottom line in many of the horizontal areas (thanks to the way the SNES displays things) that I'd prefer to see completed, and the fact that the stage graphics go ugly or missing very quickly once you get away from visible areas.

Honestly, the raw maps are great to have, but to get them to a state I would be personally satisfied with (and I'm rather finicky), I'd pretty much have to redo the whole thing over and use Tropicon's work as a guide.

Hopefully, someone with more time and more SNES mapping expertise will attempt this.