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Author Topic: Looney Tunes Collector: Martian Revenge/Marvin Strikes Back! (Game Boy Color)  (Read 545 times)
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LTIan
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« on: June 03, 2014, 10:13:09 PM »

Since there are Maps for Looney Tunes Collector: ALERT!, can anyone get maps from Martian Revenge?
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Shiny_
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« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2014, 10:22:26 PM »

Mapping this game is somewhat complicated because, while it at first seems to use screens connected similarly to the Game Boy Zelda games, there are instances where screens are placed on top of each other. The game also has a bunch of small submaps (caves, houses, etc.) that I don't think fit together in any meaningful way.

A while back I tried to map it. I got as far as almost completing the overworld, but stopped after learning about the overlapping screens. Attached is a picture of the results. Overlapping screens aren't shown and a few other things might be missing since I don't fully understand the map format.
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TerraEsperZ
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« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2014, 07:20:54 PM »

Ah, the good old 'impossible overworld'... I so hate it when a game developer comes so close to making an internally consistent map only to fail in several small ways like in this case.
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LTIan
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« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2014, 05:54:49 PM »

Well, you could do separate maps like in Looney Tunes Collector: Alert!
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Trop
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« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2014, 06:58:28 PM »

I'd just place the overlapping areas off to the side on the same map in kind of a bubble with some kind of indication about them.  There's no need to tear up the whole thing to squeeze them in where they should be.
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TerraEsperZ
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« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2014, 07:21:00 PM »

I'd just place the overlapping areas off to the side on the same map in kind of a bubble with some kind of indication about them.  There's no need to tear up the whole thing to squeeze them in where they should be.

I guess it depends if the overlapping areas are separate sections that would completely overlap the overworld and should thus be presented separately (kinda like Zora's Domain would completely overlap Death Mountain in The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past) or if the various sections of the map just slightly overlap one another, which would suck hardcore in terms of fitting everything together (like the Chozodia/Space Pirate Mother Ship in Metroid: Zero Mission map where individual rooms were just a tiny bit too big so that once everything was assembled using doors as connection points, adjacent rooms would overlap one another by a single tile row).
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 07:21:23 PM by TerraEsperZ » Logged

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Shiny_
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« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2014, 08:01:33 PM »

Well, you could do separate maps like in Looney Tunes Collector: Alert!

After looking at the maps from Alert!, I was surprised to see that the overworlds are nearly identical. It makes Marvin Strikes Back! look like a lazy ROM hack. Furthermore, the Alert! overworld map probably has overlapping screens in the same places. And, since there's only one version of the Alert! overworld available on the site, those extra screens aren't represented.

If you were referring to the submaps (houses, caves, etc.), then yes, those could be in separate maps like you suggested.

My main concern is being able to represent the entire overworld, overlapping screens and all, without ruining the look of the map.

However, I might just be making a fuss over nothing. In my notes it's written that walking east from (8,3) on the overworld would bring you to an overlapping screen (an extra overworld screen shown before entering the house seen on (9,3)). However, I just went there in-game and can't reproduce it. I don't know if that's because I imagined the whole thing or if it's because I cheated to get to that area. It's been several months since I last looked at this game.

I might try to finish mapping this game on the grounds that I could have imagined the whole thing. It might be a while, though, since progress is slow on my current mapping project (a game that has a really weird map format).
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 08:03:57 PM by Shiny_ » Logged
Shiny_
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« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2014, 02:22:23 AM »

I've made some more progress. Details follow.

-

When I came back to work on these maps I was still faced with a major problem: I didn't know how to rip anything but the overworld. After getting settled back in, however, it quickly became obvious that I'd been approaching things the wrong way.

Previously, I had been viewing things in a top-down fashion: the overworld is a single monolithic map that's divided into areas. However, that's wrong, wrong, wrong. A bottom-up approach works much better: a bunch of area maps together form the overworld. This makes the overworld's format an exception rather than a rule.

Enlightened, I started ripping area maps individually. That ultimately led to having every map ripped, including submaps (caves, houses, etc.) and a few miscellaneous things (menus, animated cutscenes, and minigames). The overworld map is now just a bunch of smaller area maps pasted together.

Maybe the maps will show up on the main page at some point. I want to at least notate collectibles first, which may take a while (objects always take the longest to figure out). Mapping enemies and NPCs might be out since the maps tend to have multiple object configurations.

-

In other news, I discovered a few interesting things:

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Even with every map ripped (that I know of) I still can no longer find any overlapping screens. I'm crazy, apparently.

-

The animated cutscenes actually have maps to themselves, with each screen being a frame of the animation. Some of the longer cutscenes are split across multiple maps. When you notice slight pauses in the music during cutscenes that's when it's changing maps.

Here's a map that contains part of a cutscene:



-

There's this weird minigame that may or may not be accessible normally. It feels a bit unfinished. However, behold:



... is that programmer Laurent "Killer" Krzywanski's glorious mug?! That scamp... Kiss

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There's a sliding puzzle minigame. Again, I don't know if it's accessible through normal means It's playable on the arcade machine in the desert town shop.

 

-

Bugs's home from Looney Tunes Collector: Alert! is also present in this game, though not accessible normally. Not much is different, but the tutorial signs in particular have something more interesting to say this time around:



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Lastly, here are some codes.

Play Tetrski Minigame: (USA version only)
    Code (Game Genie): 890-4AA-F74
    Code (Manual): Change the byte at 0x1D104A to 0x89.
    Description:
        To play, restart the game with this code on.
        Press start to begin playing Not-Tetris.

Play Smokey the Genie Minigame: (USA version only)
    Code (Game Genie): 940-4AA-F74
    Code (Manual): Change the byte at 0x1D104A to 0x94.
    Description:
        To play, restart the game with this code on.
        Hint: Press start, select, start, select, start, select, start to watch the puzzle solve itself.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 11:48:56 PM by Shiny_ » Logged
ReyVGM
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« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2014, 10:02:30 PM »

Shiny, I posted your extremely interesting findings on TCRF: http://tcrf.net/Marvin_Strikes_Back!

You think you could look for unused stuff for the first game (Looney Tunes Collector: Alert) too?
« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 10:05:39 PM by ReyVGM » Logged
Shiny_
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« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2014, 02:06:00 AM »

Shiny, I posted your extremely interesting findings on TCRF: http://tcrf.net/Marvin_Strikes_Back!

I'm hesitant about calling the content unused since I'm so unfamiliar with the game.

And sure enough, I went back again to scour FAQs and learned that the "Smokey the Genie" minigame is actually used in-game. That makes sense given that it felt like a complete minigame.

However, I still can't find any references to the other stuff.

I think it's reasonable to make these guesses:
    - Bugs's home: The dummy text is almost certainly unused. However, there's a possibility of the map being used in a cutscene.
    - Tetrski: It feels unfinished and has what seems to be a developer's face plastered on it. It's probably unused.

Also, your link is broken. The exclamation point isn't hyperlinked properly.

You think you could look for unused stuff for the first game (Looney Tunes Collector: Alert) too?

Since the games are so similar I was able to get the maps from Alert! within a few minutes.

The only thing of interest I saw was this:



Quote
De la part de l'équipe de "Martian Alert"
Salut Jérémie

Which Google Translates to:

Quote
From the team of "Martian Alert"
Hi Jeremiah

Note that the european version of Looney Tunes Collector: Alert! is known as Looney Tunes Collector: Martian Alert!.

View "Hi Jeremiah" Screen (USA version):
    Code (Game Genie): 8A1-7DA-F74
    Code (Manual): Change the byte at 0x1C517D to 0x8A.
    Description: Restart the game with this code on.

-

I also did more research into how the object placement data is stored and discovered this:

The way it works is that the game world is always in one of 28 configurations. Each configuration can potentially change the entire world structure, although in practice it's rare for anything but the object placement to change. Approached naively, that's 28 whole map sets! Now, there are a lot of duplicates that could be pruned, but that's still a lot of maps- many of which are very similar. Even mapping only collectables like I wanted to is problematic because those tend to move around as well.

So there are two options:
    1. Map every unique configuration, pruning the duplicates (ugly but doable).
    2. Don't map objects at all.

I'm going with #2 since #1 would clutter the map listing.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 02:41:05 AM by Shiny_ » Logged
ReyVGM
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« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2014, 09:24:49 AM »

Quote
I'm hesitant about calling the content unused since I'm so unfamiliar with the game.
And sure enough, I went back again to scour FAQs and learned that the "Smokey the Genie" minigame is actually used in-game. That makes sense given that it felt like a complete minigame.

Crap, you're right. I have a battery save for both games with everything unlocked if you're interested.

Quote
Also, your link is broken. The exclamation point isn't hyperlinked properly.

http://tcrf.net/Marvin_Strikes_Back!


Quote
Since the games are so similar I was able to get the maps from Alert! within a few minutes.

The only thing of interest I saw was this:



Quote
De la part de l'équipe de "Martian Alert"
Salut Jérémie

Which Google Translates to:

Quote
From the team of "Martian Alert"
Hi Jeremiah

Note that the european version of Looney Tunes Collector: Alert! is known as Looney Tunes Collector: Martian Alert!.

View "Hi Jeremiah" Screen (USA version):
    Code (Game Genie): 8A1-7DA-F74
    Code (Manual): Change the byte at 0x1C517D to 0x8A.
    Description: Restart the game with this code on.

Excellent. I'll add that too.

You should really use your talents to scour for unused content too and post them on TCRF.
I also added your codes to gamehacking.org
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 09:30:14 AM by ReyVGM » Logged
Shiny_
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« Reply #11 on: Yesterday at 12:11:30 AM »

I have a battery save for both games with everything unlocked if you're interested.

With the advent of cheats, that shouldn't be necessary.

Excellent. I'll add that too.

You should really use your talents to scour for unused content too and post them on TCRF.

When looking for unused content it's helpful to have intimate knowledge of what is and isn't accessible normally. I don't usually have that kind of knowledge. Ironically, of all the games I've mapped, only one had I played previously (and it wasn't this one).

However, I noticed that this stuff may be unused:

Map 0x13:
    It's a map for a hole. Some of the tiling is wrong (especially evident on the bats). Both exits lead to the overworld with no way to return.

    The same map exists in Alert! (also map 0x13) with correct tiles.
    
    

Map 0x18:
    It's some kind of cellar. There's a box containing 3 Dyn-O-Mite, but when picked up Marvin starts babbling about a radar (a radar is one of the first items you receive in the game). The exit leads to inside the haunted house with no way to return. This map exists as part of normal gameplay in Alert!.
    
      

Map 0x30:
    Another map for a hole. Unlike almost every other hole, the exits aren't marked with lit areas. Both exits lead to the overworld with no way to return.

    It seems to be a subtle remix of map 0x30 from Alert!. The layout is a little different. The warp points are in the same places except Alert! has them properly marked.
    
    

Map 0x31:
    Yet another map for a hole (noticing a theme yet?). Both exits lead to the overworld with no way to return.
    
    It seems to be a subtle remix of map 0x31 from Alert!. The layout is a little different.
    
    

Map 0x47:
    It's a store unlike any other in the game. It's fully functional but seems to be unused. The exit leads to wherever you were last on the overworld.

    There are three stores that I know are accessible in the game. Two of those stores use the same map. Perhaps all of the stores were originally going to be unique.
    
    

Map 0x48:
    The first floor of a hotel. It's unlike any other hotel in the game and seems to be unused. The stairs are nonfunctional and the exit leads to wherever you were last on the overworld.
    
    The hotel is functional in that you can sleep there, but then you'll wake up in the Blue Town hotel. Creepy. Exiting afterward will still lead you to wherever you were last on the overworld.
    
    It's similar to map 0x48 from Alert!, but with the addition of a window, different walls, and different stairs.
    
    

Also, there are cutscenes for when Bugs and Marvin sleep at any hotel. No, not with... not even at the same time (that would've been some good TCRF material!). The Bugs sleeping cutscene I think was used in Alert!, but as far as I know only the Marvin sleeping cutscene is ever used in Marvin Strikes Back!. The Bugs sleeping cutscene is probably just a leftover from Alert!.

-

The following are maps I think are probably used at some point, but don't know where. Knowing their names and how to access them would be immensely useful. Any help would be appreciated. Those maps are:

Map 0x2B: This is under the lake. In Alert! this map was accessible by destroying a boulder at the bottom of the lake. In Marvin Strikes Back! I don't know how to access it or if it's even possible to do so normally.

    

Map 0x4B: A mysterious underwater area

    

Maps 0x4F, 0x50, 0x51: These are connected and form some kind of underground base I've learned that this is the secret base from one of the secret missions.
    One of the ladders crashes the game when used. Maybe it's due to an invalid state (i.e. not having triggered some story-related thing). Alternatively, maybe the gate in front of the ladder (not pictured) never opens in-game, making it my own fault for using a walk-through-walls code.

    

    

    

Map 0x9B: It's some kind of organic structure It's K-9's brain and is part of a secret mission

    

I also added your codes to gamehacking.org

I think that it's fine that you posting this stuff on other sites. However, it would have been a good idea to ask first just in case.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 03:05:56 PM by Shiny_ » Logged
ReyVGM
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« Reply #12 on: Yesterday at 08:32:52 AM »

Quote
When looking for unused content it's helpful to have intimate knowledge of what is and isn't accessible normally. I don't usually have that kind of knowledge.

If you are not sure, then post it on their forums and other people will check. Also, TCRF is a wiki, so if something is indeed used, then someone will just delete it.

The 2nd game was released a mere 5 months after the first, which leads me to believe that they were planning either to release it as one game, or as two games (like Pokemon). That's probably why both games share many assets.

Quote
I think that it's fine that you posting this stuff on other sites. However, it would have been a good idea to ask first just in case.

You're right, sorry. I assumed that since you're receiving the credit for it, it wasn't going to be a problem.
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Shiny_
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« Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 08:20:13 PM »

I'm calling this game mapped, for now. Everything has been compiled and submitted, with the exception of the two unconfirmed maps. Mystery maps 0x2B and 0x4B (mentioned in this post) are being withheld until it can be confirmed whether or not they're accessible without cheating.

If you are not sure, then post it on their forums and other people will check. Also, TCRF is a wiki, so if something is indeed used, then someone will just delete it.

Those are possibilities, though at the moment I'd rather be working on maps instead.

The 2nd game was released a mere 5 months after the first, which leads me to believe that they were planning either to release it as one game, or as two games (like Pokemon). That's probably why both games share many assets.

Alert! shows this ominous splash screen after the credits that alludes to a sequel. Make of that what you will.

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TerraEsperZ
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« Reply #14 on: Yesterday at 08:34:56 PM »

Let me say that although I'm not really interested in this particular game, the technical discussion has been really fascinating! It's not often that a game has so many "secrets" waiting to be found.
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