VGMaps

General Boards => Map Requests => Topic started by: Incubator on March 25, 2011, 03:33:52 AM

Title: Map remake...
Post by: Incubator on March 25, 2011, 03:33:52 AM
Hi everyone,
I really love the maps you did, all these great treasures, but there's one little problem i cant really understand :(

Why putting layers together in a map? These maps would be more useful if the layers would be separate and the one using it would put them together, for the following reasons:
-The maps can't be animated, normalle you would set up the front layer and bg layer to move separately to make it look nice, but that can't be done when layers are put together. It's easier to put them together then separating them
-When you make a map, sometimes you want to modify them, to make it somehow unique, but that's almost impossible when you have the layers in one.
-Skipping through backgrounds and foregrounds, what about floing water, volcano, what could you do about those?

It's nice to look at them and bring back memories when you were walking on those familiar terrains, but i don't think that should be the main reason of a bg, i think the main reason should be to help developers make things with them, for ex. Games, Animations, etc. But that's impossible when you have everything put together :(

See the following examples:
BAD: https://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/NES/Battletoads-Level01-Ragnarok%27sCanyon.png
https://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/NES/Battletoads-Level08-IntruderExcluder.png
https://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/NES/BlasterMaster-Area1-Interiors.png

GOOD: http://www.spriters-resource.com/snes/toadsanddragon/stage1.png
http://www.spriters-resource.com/nes/battletoads/stage11clingerwinger.png
http://www.spriters-resource.com/snes/toadsanddragon/stage5.png
http://www.spriters-resource.com/snes/toadsanddragon/stage3.gif
http://www.spriters-resource.com/snes/toadsanddragon/stage6.png
http://www.spriters-resource.com/snes/toadsanddragon/stage7.png

See how everything's separate in the good ones? and there are no enemies inside, those can be put in from spritesheets and you can get the complete image

I posted this in the request section because i would really need some backgrounds if possible, they are already made, but i can't use them :(
These ones are:
https://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/SuperNES/X-Men-MutantApocalypse-Genosha-QueenBrood.png
https://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/SuperNES/X-Men-MutantApocalypse-Genosha-Apocalypse.png
https://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/SuperNES/X-Men-MutantApocalypse-Genosha-Wolverine.png
https://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/SuperNES/ActRaiser2-Almetha.png
https://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/SuperNES/UndercoverCops%28J%29-Stage3.png
https://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/SuperNES/ActRaiser2-Benefic.png
https://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/SuperNES/ActRaiser2-Demon%27sCave.png(this is alright, but i would really need the bg fg layers)
https://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/SuperNES/ActRaiser2-Modero.png

I cant use them, because i would like to make some modifications to the maps and would like to add slowly moving bg.

I would be very grateful if anyone would be willing to make them.
Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Map remake...
Post by: Maxim on March 25, 2011, 04:17:43 AM
Most mappers probably make the maps in a layered format and render to PNG for the web. (Well, some use MSPaint but they're beyond redemption.)

For the casual browser, what they want to see is a map showing the game world, not a bunch of components. Your demands are relatively unusual.
Title: Re: Map remake...
Post by: DarkWolf on March 25, 2011, 06:08:20 AM
I recently redid one of my Phantasy Star II maps in HTML with Javascript enabled layer toggling.  I had a background layer, a layer with the items and other sprites, and a layer for the maze solution.  However, it just doesn't feel right, and the lack of zoom kind of sucks.  I could redo it with HTML Canvas and add some of the functionality, but then I'm not allowing people with IE to see the map.  There's Flash, but then you prevent a lot of mobile users.

There's also the space issue.  Unless you break down the upper layers into small image fragments and have some sort of translation table, the additional layers for large maps would take up a lot more space.
Title: Re: Map remake...
Post by: Trop on March 25, 2011, 01:10:49 PM
Oh you want parts.  Well first of all:
http://www.vgmapper.com/SysSNES/A/Actraiser2.html
Check the "General gallery" for backgrounds.  Making a map in tiled chunks would be much more work intensive then just making a basic map with everything, even for simple maps.  It's different from sprite ripping that way.  Background ripping alone, on the other hand, is relatively simple.  If there's anything specific you want just list it here and I'll see what I can do.
Title: Re: Map remake...
Post by: TerraEsperZ on March 25, 2011, 01:24:44 PM
Hey, I resent having two of my maps cited as being bad examples ;)!

Also Maxim, I'll have you know there's nothing shameful about using MSPaint, alright :P? I do keep all the layers separate except for sprites and enemies most of the times, that's just common sense. I just find that MSPaint is simpler and faster for most of the basic work of a map.

Moving on...

Incubator, I'm actually as surprised as you because I wouldn't have expected anyone to want a map's components instead of a finished product that looks as good as possible. I myself make maps either because I think the level looks great or because I like puzzling over how different areas fit together.

And like Trop said, it's much easier and faster to just put as much as possible directly on the map, layers excepted, than it is to capture everything separately in every possible state and *then* trying to assemble them again in the most accurate way possible. That's what I've been forced to do with Castlevania-Dawn of Sorrow (DS) because few screenshots are usable by themselves because of all the 3D and visual effects and it is a *pain*.
Title: Re: Map remake...
Post by: Incubator on March 25, 2011, 04:09:21 PM
@TerraEsperZ
Sorry for criticizing your work :P i just took them randomly at the battletoads part, because that's what i was looking at, at that time. It's nothing personal ;)

Actually, there are many people using sprites and backgrounds for games, you might already know the site YoYo Games where everyone can make any kind of game with an application called Game Maker, see it for yourself how many maps are used there from games like megaman, mario, sonic, etc.
http://www.yoyogames.com/make

I know it's harder, but that's the problem with everything, the more complex, the harder.
@Trop
wow, thanks for the backgrounds, those look great.
I think this solves most of my problem, there are the moving volcanos and stuff like that, but oh well, i can do the little work. Thanks
btw, i don't think a map needs to be tiled in chunks either, that's harder to put together, it's easier when you just copy paste parts in other parts and see if they fit.
Title: Re: Map remake...
Post by: TerraEsperZ on March 25, 2011, 04:16:55 PM
Nah, it's all in good fun, as was my remark to Maxim. I think I just didn't choose the right emoticons to indicate that.
Title: Re: Map remake...
Post by: Peardian on March 25, 2011, 09:33:59 PM
I think what you're looking for is the Spriter's Resource. Making a map and chopping up components for people to use are two different things. :P
Title: Re: Map remake...
Post by: Will on April 16, 2011, 04:35:17 AM
Incubator I understand the disadvantages of the map compilations. However if you'd like the graphic material from any of the stages I am happy to grant your requests for them. Just send me a message on the site messaging system and I'll fulfill your needs as best I can. You can also share the material with other sites that host backgrounds, foregrounds and sprites. X-men: Mutant Apocalypse was one of my favourites on the SNES.
Title: Re: Map remake...
Post by: VideoGamePhenom on August 15, 2011, 08:59:55 AM
I wonder if there's going to be maps for the remakes of the Super Mario Advance series? The first Super Mario Advance has Super Mario Bros 2 with all sorts of special coins and Yoshi eggs. I wonder if anyone will analyze data and extract it here for the web maps? Same thing for Super Mario World with dragon coin positions in Super Mario Advance 2. Who is smart enough to extract the map data and post it on this website? I'll be waiting!