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51

Gaming / Re: Mini-Bosses... Favorites?

« Last post by Cyartog959 on May 27, 2025, 06:12:12 am »

It feels like mini-bosses are a bit overlooked in games and that the "real" bosses are what people remember/talk about. I don't know when games started having mini-bosses, but it feels like they've been around for a long time.

Yeah, and come to think of it, the concept and stock artwork about them hasn't often been seen nor discovered by people yet, but I have this often constant feeling those are around, perhaps left behind in some gaming companies' buildings.

Mini-bosses do have their own right to share some spotlight and attention time as regular/major bosses do.

I can only presume they've drawn them before being programmed into games. Enemies' and bosses' stock and concept artworks are always commonly seen, but the mini-bosses' own artwork are hardly seen. Kinda tough for people to see them as references when they want to draw them in their own styles, gather inspiration to their game projects, or plainly re-draw them for the fandom.

One of Sonic 2's development docs I've seen did have a task list for Tom Payne(image link here - https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/sonic/images/c/cd/S2TASKLIST.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170520184810), at the time when he was working at Sega's Technical Institute division, and the tasks included in the list were to draw up mid-level mini-bosses, 2 in one task, and 2 more in another in-between his other tasks of drawing more enemies in his list, bringing the total of 4 mini-bosses he would have made, meaning Sonic 2 was planned to have mini-bosses while it was under development. But, because Sonic 2's worldwide launch day was closer, I guess he didn't get to create them in time, so the mini-bosses were left out until they were put in Sonic 3 in almost all Zones' first Acts.

Sonic 3's dev docs also feature mini-bosses in in Zones, but the map layouts and minibosses' drawings on paper were placeholder works until they were finalized in the game. They weren't seen until Sonic Origins as gallery unlockables.

The image links I've placed here is for anyone here to see(comments are written in Japanese language, basic translating required)...

Angel Island Zone & Hydrocity Zone Map Layout Concepts - https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/sonic/images/5/5e/AIZHZmapconcept.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20220630015849

Marble Garden Zone & Carnival Night Zone Map Layout Concepts - https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/sonic/images/f/fc/MGZCNZmapconcept.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20220630020714

Launch Base Zone Map Layout Concepts - https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/sonic/images/c/cd/LBZmapconcept.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20220630024106

Death Egg Zone Map Layout Concepts - https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/sonic/images/1/1c/DEZmapconcept.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20220630032845

I still feel there's still a bit more than these out there, yet to be seen in full...

Believe it or not, I just kinda know they're still around somewhere, and in need of preservation. Hopefully some people can take on a task to find them and compile them in new artbooks or update current ones.

I was thinking about my favorites and all I could think of was Konami's Contra series. There are a lot of mini-bosses (and bosses) in those games that I like. Two examples:
 -Contra: Hard Corps (Genesis), the big dancing robot in stage 1. It looks cool and also uses the Genesis's tilt layer scroll-trick in a neat way.
  https://youtu.be/3lyv5U9WTBQ?t=2048
 -Contra III: The Alien Wars (SNES), the wall climbing robot in stage 3. It's rare that games let you fight a boss while clinging to a wall.
  https://youtu.be/3lyv5U9WTBQ?t=1055

You mean Maximum Jumbo and Tri-Transforming Wall Walker? Oh, yeah.

Despite being a mini-boss at a large size, it was rather very impressive for it to pull of great layer-tilting tricks beneath the Genesis' capabilities, as other bosses did from other games, like those from Gunstar Heroes.

Yeah, I guess it is rare to fight bosses while holding onto walls, but that mini-boss does provide a good example of one. Rather challenging, actually.

If you think of Contra series, and it's fine that you do, there are other games and series that have them. The entire Blaster Master Zero Trilogy from Sunsoft and Inti Creates has them, for one, and they were rather fun to fight.

I don't know if Contra's mini-bosses count though. They're a good example of when mini-bosses are often bigger/worse than the bosses at the end of the levels. It's more like Contra has many real bosses per level rather than a few mini-bosses.

I'm sure they do count, especially the spin-offs, if I could remember any having them.

I can tell that from what I've seen, many mini-bosses from "Hard Corps: Uprising" are more uniquely designed and original in most stages, alongside select past normal bosses were given their technological makeovers to suit their places among Emperor Tiberius' ranks in his Commonwealth Empire army and were re-established as mini-bosses, such as Defense Wall.

If you've not seen them yet, I think you should give them a look. Their designs are rather cool, especially when you can notice their usage of green coloring for their lights.

52

Gaming / Re: Oscar, the Game Series

« Last post by Ethancarte on May 27, 2025, 01:49:18 am »

Considering the historical context and development challenges faced by the "Oscar" game series, how might the lack of cohesive storytelling and character development have impacted its reception and longevity in the gaming community?

53

Map Requests / Re: JonLeung's Requests

« Last post by JonLeung on May 26, 2025, 02:02:33 pm »

zagato blackfist has mapped a bunch of NES baseball games; it seems that probably all of the North American ones are done now.  That's a lot of baseball!
And besides all those, zagato has created maps for Wurm: Journey To The Center Of The Earth, an interesting multi-genre game that few people talk about.  And when they do, they usually have to say that few people talk about it.  Oops, I guess I just did that.

Thanks again, zagato!

Not many left on my NES requests list, but I had to go and add Xexyz.  As I was putting up the Wurm maps, I noticed nearby, alphabetically, that we only have one map for Xexyz, from Will Mallia.  This really surprised me, that I hadn't noticed this lack earlier, so I felt I should put it on the list.  Since zagato is trucking along in the quest to have every NES game mapped, I'm sure it will be done eventually... but I should still mention it.

54

Gaming / Re: Mini-Bosses... Favorites?

« Last post by mechaskrom on May 26, 2025, 12:20:40 pm »

It feels like mini-bosses are a bit overlooked in games and that the "real" bosses are what people remember/talk about. I don't know when games started having mini-bosses, but it feels like they've been around for a long time.

I was thinking about my favorites and all I could think of was Konami's Contra series. There are a lot of mini-bosses (and bosses) in those games that I like. Two examples:
 -Contra: Hard Corps (Genesis), the big dancing robot in stage 1. It looks cool and also uses the Genesis's tilt layer scroll-trick in a neat way.
  https://youtu.be/3lyv5U9WTBQ?t=2048
 -Contra III: The Alien Wars (SNES), the wall climbing robot in stage 3. It's rare that games let you fight a boss while clinging to a wall.
  https://youtu.be/3lyv5U9WTBQ?t=1055

I don't know if Contra's mini-bosses count though. They're a good example of when mini-bosses are often bigger/worse than the bosses at the end of the levels. It's more like Contra has many real bosses per level rather than a few mini-bosses.

55

VGMaps Social Board / Re: YouTube channel! (JonLeung1)

« Last post by JonLeung on May 23, 2025, 09:11:52 pm »

This probably seems ridiculous, but It's World Turtle Day, apparently.  And my brother seems to really like making Hookbill the Koopa cough, so... here we go, 12 hours of that.  I made this in considerably less time than that, of course.

I don't know if that's going to earn me much watch time; if anyone's got 12 hours to spare they should watch my "One Minute of Music from EVERY SNES Game (US & Canada)" video instead...

I'm just finishing up another "real" video, so look forward to that!

56

Gaming / Mini-Bosses... Favorites?

« Last post by Cyartog959 on May 22, 2025, 12:17:20 am »

I don't ever recall such a time before mini-bosses came to the video gaming history, but I think I wasn't around when these weren't yet officially classified into the terminology for bosses as a whole...

I kinda thought someone may remember what point in gaming history mini-bosses were included in games of different kinds, besides platforming, because, well, I don't know what day and time that occurred.

But, other than that, I felt I should ask anyone in the VGMaps community about Mini-Bosses and what their best favorites are.

What I always remember, mini-bosses are fought in the midst of any stage, or in a select stage in a world, or, whichever, and they're ranked below main/major bosses as weaker than them, but still stronger than regular and/or big enemies, especially when they're unique opponents with attack patterns of their own to stand out from enemies... but, their goals to defeat them still remain the same.

For me, in any platforming game that has them, I expected them to be unique and fought in each world or world's stage in its mid-point, or midway in a stage, on the case that more than one are present. My fond of mini-bosses came quickly when I saw Sonic the Hedgehog 3, and felt more should be seen in games since.

Sure, people do have different thoughts and opinions about them, but I have my fondness.

What also stands them more are the many battle themes they have to distinguish them from other bosses, and it helps accentuate them.

And, no, to any thinking, copy-and-pastes of any kind, even resizes, do not count towards that classification as mini-bosses, not without even trying to make changes to make them distinct. Any dev or designer doing so can be shortly described as a "lazy thinker" with no thought, effort, nor originality in their creation, even if they think and believe its for cutting corners in design.

Also, I kinda don't feel how mini-bosses can be brought back as enemy fodder to players that have gotten stronger through their journeys in many games. Kinda takes away brevity and their uniqueness, especially when they're still trying to stand out from them.

Oh, and, in some games, mini-bosses seem to surpass main bosses in their power, health, and attack patterns, and that seems kinda unfair and balance disrupting in different difficulties, regardless of level order. They should be weaker than main bosses, not the other way around. I can remember some games that gave the opposite case.

The one thing I could think outside of gaming is that there should be some encouragement and/or tutorials/crash courses in making mini-bosses to games, with simple steps in making them, their distinctions on making them stand out, etc., etc..

They came in all different kinds of shapes and sizes as main bosses do, such as monsters, robots, rivals, for-hire thugs and mercenaries, and so on, but they all never stood a chance against heroes, and more were still coming.

Of course, in the days of early gaming, if any can remember, many games didn't have any additional boss types because of their size limits, like in NES' time of game carts, for instance. I can understand there's not much storage space to cram them in, even with devs and programmers using clever know-how and trickery under their tight limits, but games grew bigger in size capacity and we we're given much more than plenty of room to create them.

Not that I could remember any, but I think so far, I've not seen any placed in the Internet. I mean, the present tutorials in my spare time seeing them do cover bosses, but the accommodation of other boss types, especially mini-bosses should be included by updating whatever available tutorials so far... or make new ones.

I mean, we've got the tools and programs for designing and implementing them. Only thing to cover is the knowledge in doing it, along with the processes and inspiration sources.

That was quite much to talk about, but that was to give something in the community to talk about from time to time... and to kinda make sure they're not forgotten to most.

Now, for this...

I can remember favorites of mine fought so far... In fact, I've got a list's worth.

1 - Cyclone W, Acid Man's Stage, Mega Man 11
2 - Drap Trappers, Forest Area, Blaster Master Zero
3 - Heavy Gunner, Studiopolis Zone, Sonic Mania
4 - Totemer, Block Man's Stage, Mega Man 11
5 - Unknown Cell-046, Immigration Ship L-229, Blaster Master Zero II
6 - Mosquitus, Doppler Laboratory Stage 2, Mega Man X3
7 - Fire Breath, Angel Island Zone, Sonic the Hedgehog 3
8 - Melon Bread, Dice Palace, Gunstar Heroes
9 - Hinox Brothers, Hinox Mine, Bomb Storage, Legend of Zelda: Tri-Force Heroes
10 - S.A.M.U., Fortune Night, Freedom Planet
11 - Dodongo Snakes, Key Cavern Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening
12 - Bullet Kahn-I, Mass Driver Facility, Blaster Master Zero III
13 - Red Eye, Death Egg Zone, Sonic & Knuckles
14 - The Absolution, Battle Glacier, Freedom Planet
15 - Super Gondola, Dice Palace, Gunstar Heroes
16 - Rover, Face Shrine, Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening
17 - Kahn-Forbidden, Forbidden Sector, Blaster Master Zero III
18 - Hey Ho, Mushroom Hill Zone, Sonic & Knuckles
19 - Tricastle, Old Castle, Mega Man 10
20 - Greenfist, Greenhorn Forest, Wario World
21 - Big Icedus, Icecap Zone, Sonic the Hedgehog 3
22 - Giant Buzz Blob, Color Temple, Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening
23 - Syntax Spider Armor, Thermal Base, Freedom Planet
24 - Photophage, Industrial Area, Blaster Master Zero
25 - Heat Arms, Lava Reef Zone, Sonic & Knuckles

What mini-bosses are your favorites you've fought and defeated so far? You can place your favorites here.

For a little spare time fun activity/challenge to anybody as a bonus of my own, what original mini-bosses could you conceive in what game and game series of your choosing? Try a simple timelapse of any and let your imagination flow. Uniqueness and/or distinction necessary.

Just a little something for the creative juices and perhaps motivation to any game developer and programmer or dev-to-be, if you don't mind.

(ADVISORY: Other boss types DON'T COUNT. Games not yet released don't count either, because spoiler protection reasons.)

57

Map Requests / Re: List of unmapped NES games

« Last post by dark_lord_zagato on May 21, 2025, 01:27:23 pm »

Monster Truck Rally was mapped by Ricardo Sallin. I have not played this game before so I don't know if there's supposed to be any more maps. At any rate i'll take it off the list.

I'll get to Base Wars soon. I didn't realize it was another baseball game.

On that topic, everything in the international list with the word "yakyuu" in the title is a baseball game.

58

Map Requests / Re: List of unmapped NES games

« Last post by JonLeung on May 19, 2025, 06:29:33 pm »

That was quite the load of baseball games we got a few days ago.

Surprised that Base Wars wasn't in that batch... or as it is sometimes known as, "Cyber Stadium Series: Base Wars".  Wonder if, had it been more successful, they would have expanded the series with more futuristic games featuring robots playing other sports.  "Cyber Stadium Series: Hoop Wars" for basketball, perhaps?  (I guess there already is a robot football game, Cyberball...)

Funny how in Base Wars, the robots are mostly humanoid, and look similar to each other, except for their lower halves.  Some have humanoid legs, but others might have a single wheel, or tank treads, or a flying saucer-like bottom that enables them to hover.

Anyway, that's what I remember Base Wars for - for standing out a bit, with its unique setting and players, in a sea of baseball games.  Funny how the NES had so many.  I'm sure this one will be mapped eventually.  Looking forward to that.

Doing a search for "ball" on the list shows that there are not many of these "ball" games left!  Keep up the good work!

59

Map Gab / Hey... I just remembered one thing...

« Last post by Cyartog959 on May 18, 2025, 11:21:49 pm »

I feel its always worth the challenge of conquering longer and larger levels in Sonic games, and I always love doing it, but there's a little something hardly anyone's noticed...

I'm talking about the Time Bonus scoring rewards, along with the Time Over caps.

With longer and larger 2D Sonic maps, not that such a thing couldn't be possible, but, why didn't the Time Over cap nor the Time Bonus ranges for time amounts for points get adjusted in the first place? Moreover, why didn't bosses' points amounts get also increased in some tougher, later Zones, even the mini-bosses?

To some that might recall, in many, key past games gave out more points to bosses for their defeats in later levels at the end, even up to the final boss and/or true final boss giving out the highest amount of points added to the final, overall players' score.

Sonic the Hedgehog's scoring amounts for Time Bonus and the bosses hardly changed to accommodate for longer levels and/or tougher bosses, even with the amounts of hits to defeat above 8, compared to many.

Since the beginning, 2D Sonic games hardly had their ranges for Time Bonuses that depended on how fast players could get, alongside, well, defeating bosses.

From Sonic 1 to 2, the Time Bonus ranges were set at the fastest gaining 50,000 to any completing any Zone's Acts the fastest, which is under 30 seconds, while pretty much, all bosses award 1,000 for their defeat. Sonic 3 readjusted that range to under a minute... until Sonic Mania reverted that range back to 30 seconds.

I tell you, with Sonic Mania's large levels, it's quite nearly impossible for anyone to get 50,000 in under 30 seconds without using Debug Mode. How could anybody expect that tough task to be done like that, even without cheats?

Moreover, all the mini and major bosses from Sonic 3's both halves and Sonic Mania give out just 1,000 for their defeat, not raised above for the main bosses and/or later, tougher bosses in later Zones, even the final/true final bosses themselves.

To put that shortly, minibosses, maybe the same's ok, major bosses, more than 1,000, tougher bosses in later Zones should also have their values upped than the early Zones', and the final and true final bosses should give out the most amounts in the games.

In my opinion, it's kinda very hollow for said bosses to give so very little after everything any player has been through. What was good with the greater risks without the greater rewards to accommodate it all?

Should the need for longer levels and/or tougher bosses with more hits to defeat in Sonic games come again, well, I feel the score bonus ranges for fastest times in any stage, as well as all bosses, regardless of status, should also have their point values increased.

This post's for covering those of actual 2D Sonic games concerning score bonus rewarding ranges, not counting those trying to do different takes on the 2D adventures.

I hope any around here may think about that.

60

Mapping Tips/Guides / Re: Guide to mapping PlayStation (PSX) 2D games with PSVrammed

« Last post by mechaskrom on May 15, 2025, 09:17:56 pm »

Thanks very much for sharing this! I've played around with VRAM tools for games before and it always gets tricky, I've stuck to emulator screenshots for the most part and trying to use codes to hide layers etc. I will definitely give this a try and check out your Lua scripts. The idea of trying to find the palette was always the part I dreaded, as it felt imprecise, but this seems like a fairly nice workflow.

Maybe I should write a PSX 3D mapping guide inspired by yours...

The lua script I made for LoM is not included because it's an embarrassing mess of code. I'm not a lua-programmer and it was made for one game use with no consideration for readability/reusability. Let me know if you really want it despite that.

It's not that interesting either since it's pretty much the same as all my other screenshot lua scripts. What it does basically in pseudo code:
-save origin state
-while cameraY < areaHeight
 -while cameraX < areaWidth
  -load origin state
  -set new camera position and write it to game (using codes)
  -run emulator a few frames so game is updated with the new camera position
  -take screenshot
 -endWhile
-endWhile

The origin state load before every screenshot is to keep animated/moving things in the same state in every screenshot. I think this could fail though if the game inserts lag frames at some, but not all, camera positions. Probably rare that it causes any stitching errors though and should be fairly obvious if it does. It's definitely better to use codes to freeze things, but I wasn't able to find any in LoM.


Finding the right palette can be a challenge sometimes, but unless the game was programmed by a bunch of monkeys they are usually ordered in a logical/structured way. Finding the correct palette will become easy after you've worked on a game for a while and gotten more familiar with how it uses VRAM. At least that's my experience having mapped a few PSX games.

Overall I've found this mapping method to be powerful and easy to use. In some ways it's actually better than the "normal" enable/disable whole BG/OBJ layers in emulators, because you can control every drawn object separately as long as they use textures/palettes in VRAM.


A PSX 3D mapping guide would be interesting so please consider writing one. I'm sure many others would also be interested in such a guide. I always like to hear about other mappers' process for mapping games. Perhaps I'll try mapping a 3D game someday, but as an old 2D gamer, one extra dimension scares me.