Topic: Mini-Bosses... Favorites?

[Cyartog959]

I don't ever recall such a time before mini-bosses came to the video gaming history, but I think I wasn't around when these weren't yet officially classified into the terminology for bosses as a whole...

I kinda thought someone may remember what point in gaming history mini-bosses were included in games of different kinds, besides platforming, because, well, I don't know what day and time that occurred.

But, other than that, I felt I should ask anyone in the VGMaps community about Mini-Bosses and what their best favorites are.

What I always remember, mini-bosses are fought in the midst of any stage, or in a select stage in a world, or, whichever, and they're ranked below main/major bosses as weaker than them, but still stronger than regular and/or big enemies, especially when they're unique opponents with attack patterns of their own to stand out from enemies... but, their goals to defeat them still remain the same.

For me, in any platforming game that has them, I expected them to be unique and fought in each world or world's stage in its mid-point, or midway in a stage, on the case that more than one are present. My fond of mini-bosses came quickly when I saw Sonic the Hedgehog 3, and felt more should be seen in games since.

Sure, people do have different thoughts and opinions about them, but I have my fondness.

What also stands them more are the many battle themes they have to distinguish them from other bosses, and it helps accentuate them.

And, no, to any thinking, copy-and-pastes of any kind, even resizes, do not count towards that classification as mini-bosses, not without even trying to make changes to make them distinct. Any dev or designer doing so can be shortly described as a "lazy thinker" with no thought, effort, nor originality in their creation, even if they think and believe its for cutting corners in design.

Also, I kinda don't feel how mini-bosses can be brought back as enemy fodder to players that have gotten stronger through their journeys in many games. Kinda takes away brevity and their uniqueness, especially when they're still trying to stand out from them.

Oh, and, in some games, mini-bosses seem to surpass main bosses in their power, health, and attack patterns, and that seems kinda unfair and balance disrupting in different difficulties, regardless of level order. They should be weaker than main bosses, not the other way around. I can remember some games that gave the opposite case.

The one thing I could think outside of gaming is that there should be some encouragement and/or tutorials/crash courses in making mini-bosses to games, with simple steps in making them, their distinctions on making them stand out, etc., etc..

They came in all different kinds of shapes and sizes as main bosses do, such as monsters, robots, rivals, for-hire thugs and mercenaries, and so on, but they all never stood a chance against heroes, and more were still coming.

Of course, in the days of early gaming, if any can remember, many games didn't have any additional boss types because of their size limits, like in NES' time of game carts, for instance. I can understand there's not much storage space to cram them in, even with devs and programmers using clever know-how and trickery under their tight limits, but games grew bigger in size capacity and we we're given much more than plenty of room to create them.

Not that I could remember any, but I think so far, I've not seen any placed in the Internet. I mean, the present tutorials in my spare time seeing them do cover bosses, but the accommodation of other boss types, especially mini-bosses should be included by updating whatever available tutorials so far... or make new ones.

I mean, we've got the tools and programs for designing and implementing them. Only thing to cover is the knowledge in doing it, along with the processes and inspiration sources.

That was quite much to talk about, but that was to give something in the community to talk about from time to time... and to kinda make sure they're not forgotten to most.

Now, for this...

I can remember favorites of mine fought so far... In fact, I've got a list's worth.

1 - Cyclone W, Acid Man's Stage, Mega Man 11
2 - Drap Trappers, Forest Area, Blaster Master Zero
3 - Heavy Gunner, Studiopolis Zone, Sonic Mania
4 - Totemer, Block Man's Stage, Mega Man 11
5 - Unknown Cell-046, Immigration Ship L-229, Blaster Master Zero II
6 - Mosquitus, Doppler Laboratory Stage 2, Mega Man X3
7 - Fire Breath, Angel Island Zone, Sonic the Hedgehog 3
8 - Melon Bread, Dice Palace, Gunstar Heroes
9 - Hinox Brothers, Hinox Mine, Bomb Storage, Legend of Zelda: Tri-Force Heroes
10 - S.A.M.U., Fortune Night, Freedom Planet
11 - Dodongo Snakes, Key Cavern Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening
12 - Bullet Kahn-I, Mass Driver Facility, Blaster Master Zero III
13 - Red Eye, Death Egg Zone, Sonic & Knuckles
14 - The Absolution, Battle Glacier, Freedom Planet
15 - Super Gondola, Dice Palace, Gunstar Heroes
16 - Rover, Face Shrine, Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening
17 - Kahn-Forbidden, Forbidden Sector, Blaster Master Zero III
18 - Hey Ho, Mushroom Hill Zone, Sonic & Knuckles
19 - Tricastle, Old Castle, Mega Man 10
20 - Greenfist, Greenhorn Forest, Wario World
21 - Big Icedus, Icecap Zone, Sonic the Hedgehog 3
22 - Giant Buzz Blob, Color Temple, Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening
23 - Syntax Spider Armor, Thermal Base, Freedom Planet
24 - Photophage, Industrial Area, Blaster Master Zero
25 - Heat Arms, Lava Reef Zone, Sonic & Knuckles

What mini-bosses are your favorites you've fought and defeated so far? You can place your favorites here.

For a little spare time fun activity/challenge to anybody as a bonus of my own, what original mini-bosses could you conceive in what game and game series of your choosing? Try a simple timelapse of any and let your imagination flow. Uniqueness and/or distinction necessary.

Just a little something for the creative juices and perhaps motivation to any game developer and programmer or dev-to-be, if you don't mind.

(ADVISORY: Other boss types DON'T COUNT. Games not yet released don't count either, because spoiler protection reasons.)

[mechaskrom]

It feels like mini-bosses are a bit overlooked in games and that the "real" bosses are what people remember/talk about. I don't know when games started having mini-bosses, but it feels like they've been around for a long time.

I was thinking about my favorites and all I could think of was Konami's Contra series. There are a lot of mini-bosses (and bosses) in those games that I like. Two examples:
 -Contra: Hard Corps (Genesis), the big dancing robot in stage 1. It looks cool and also uses the Genesis's tilt layer scroll-trick in a neat way.
  https://youtu.be/3lyv5U9WTBQ?t=2048
 -Contra III: The Alien Wars (SNES), the wall climbing robot in stage 3. It's rare that games let you fight a boss while clinging to a wall.
  https://youtu.be/3lyv5U9WTBQ?t=1055

I don't know if Contra's mini-bosses count though. They're a good example of when mini-bosses are often bigger/worse than the bosses at the end of the levels. It's more like Contra has many real bosses per level rather than a few mini-bosses.

[Cyartog959]

It feels like mini-bosses are a bit overlooked in games and that the "real" bosses are what people remember/talk about. I don't know when games started having mini-bosses, but it feels like they've been around for a long time.

Yeah, and come to think of it, the concept and stock artwork about them hasn't often been seen nor discovered by people yet, but I have this often constant feeling those are around, perhaps left behind in some gaming companies' buildings.

Mini-bosses do have their own right to share some spotlight and attention time as regular/major bosses do.

I can only presume they've drawn them before being programmed into games. Enemies' and bosses' stock and concept artworks are always commonly seen, but the mini-bosses' own artwork are hardly seen. Kinda tough for people to see them as references when they want to draw them in their own styles, gather inspiration to their game projects, or plainly re-draw them for the fandom.

One of Sonic 2's development docs I've seen did have a task list for Tom Payne(image link here - https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/sonic/images/c/cd/S2TASKLIST.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170520184810), at the time when he was working at Sega's Technical Institute division, and the tasks included in the list were to draw up mid-level mini-bosses, 2 in one task, and 2 more in another in-between his other tasks of drawing more enemies in his list, bringing the total of 4 mini-bosses he would have made, meaning Sonic 2 was planned to have mini-bosses while it was under development. But, because Sonic 2's worldwide launch day was closer, I guess he didn't get to create them in time, so the mini-bosses were left out until they were put in Sonic 3 in almost all Zones' first Acts.

Sonic 3's dev docs also feature mini-bosses in in Zones, but the map layouts and minibosses' drawings on paper were placeholder works until they were finalized in the game. They weren't seen until Sonic Origins as gallery unlockables.

The image links I've placed here is for anyone here to see(comments are written in Japanese language, basic translating required)...

Angel Island Zone & Hydrocity Zone Map Layout Concepts - https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/sonic/images/5/5e/AIZHZmapconcept.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20220630015849

Marble Garden Zone & Carnival Night Zone Map Layout Concepts - https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/sonic/images/f/fc/MGZCNZmapconcept.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20220630020714

Launch Base Zone Map Layout Concepts - https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/sonic/images/c/cd/LBZmapconcept.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20220630024106

Death Egg Zone Map Layout Concepts - https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/sonic/images/1/1c/DEZmapconcept.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20220630032845

I still feel there's still a bit more than these out there, yet to be seen in full...

Believe it or not, I just kinda know they're still around somewhere, and in need of preservation. Hopefully some people can take on a task to find them and compile them in new artbooks or update current ones.

I was thinking about my favorites and all I could think of was Konami's Contra series. There are a lot of mini-bosses (and bosses) in those games that I like. Two examples:
 -Contra: Hard Corps (Genesis), the big dancing robot in stage 1. It looks cool and also uses the Genesis's tilt layer scroll-trick in a neat way.
  https://youtu.be/3lyv5U9WTBQ?t=2048
 -Contra III: The Alien Wars (SNES), the wall climbing robot in stage 3. It's rare that games let you fight a boss while clinging to a wall.
  https://youtu.be/3lyv5U9WTBQ?t=1055

You mean Maximum Jumbo and Tri-Transforming Wall Walker? Oh, yeah.

Despite being a mini-boss at a large size, it was rather very impressive for it to pull of great layer-tilting tricks beneath the Genesis' capabilities, as other bosses did from other games, like those from Gunstar Heroes.

Yeah, I guess it is rare to fight bosses while holding onto walls, but that mini-boss does provide a good example of one. Rather challenging, actually.

If you think of Contra series, and it's fine that you do, there are other games and series that have them. The entire Blaster Master Zero Trilogy from Sunsoft and Inti Creates has them, for one, and they were rather fun to fight.

I don't know if Contra's mini-bosses count though. They're a good example of when mini-bosses are often bigger/worse than the bosses at the end of the levels. It's more like Contra has many real bosses per level rather than a few mini-bosses.

I'm sure they do count, especially the spin-offs, if I could remember any having them.

I can tell that from what I've seen, many mini-bosses from "Hard Corps: Uprising" are more uniquely designed and original in most stages, alongside select past normal bosses were given their technological makeovers to suit their places among Emperor Tiberius' ranks in his Commonwealth Empire army and were re-established as mini-bosses, such as Defense Wall.

If you've not seen them yet, I think you should give them a look. Their designs are rather cool, especially when you can notice their usage of green coloring for their lights.

[mechaskrom]

You mean Maximum Jumbo and Tri-Transforming Wall Walker? Oh, yeah.

I didn't know they had names. Thanks for telling me.

Thanks also for the concept art/development doc links. It's always interesting to see the groundwork behind a game.

I've only played "Blaster Master (NES)". It has some cool (and big for the NES) bosses for sure. Nice graphics and music too, but it's way too difficult. I also don't like the controls, especially with the Wall 1&2 upgrades. "Blaster Master Zero" looks fun though and something I want to play sometime.

I haven't played "Hard Corps: Uprising", but I took a quick look at some YT-videos and I understand why you pointed out the green lights style. It's everywhere.

[Cyartog959]

I didn't know they had names. Thanks for telling me.

No problem. Many do have names, all differing on their own design.

Thanks also for the concept art/development doc links. It's always interesting to see the groundwork behind a game.

Yeah. It is. I kinda feel some indie game devs should follow more organized groundwork and pacing for their games and their schedules. It got games out quite fast, even though delays do happen for quality improvement and necessary polish work. I mean, they don't really have to be too tough or strict, but, still, I worry about their games and sequels' development times.

I've only played "Blaster Master (NES)". It has some cool (and big for the NES) bosses for sure. Nice graphics and music too, but it's way too difficult. I also don't like the controls, especially with the Wall 1&2 upgrades. "Blaster Master Zero" looks fun though and something I want to play sometime.

Guess you had a tough time trying to get to the end. Well, there's already maps, so no need to fret about getting by.

Oh, yeah, for a bit of backstory, for those that may like to know, the game first launched in Japan as "Chō Wakusei Senki Metafight", which is Japanese for "Super Planetary War Chronicle: Metafight", and it showcases its own protagonist, Kane Gardener, and the setting is Planet Sophia the 3rd, found in the near center of the Epsilon Galaxy, and orbiting it is the NORA Sattelite, home to the Science Academy of NORA itself, where Kane got trained to defend the planet from evil within Sophia's defense forces.

The backstory's from the game's Jap manual, but it tells quite a lot. Anyway...

Speaking of evil, a large horde of alien invaders, called the Invem Dark Star Army(the name for the series' enemies, blandly called "Mutants" in the localized NES game), has attacked the planet, and the leader behind them is Lord Goez(I kinda felt throwing that title in with his name makes him more villainous as an intergalactic conqueror. "Emperor" is fine, too, but, I went with the former.), and seeks to be the galaxy''s supreme ruler, unopposed.

Having no time to waste, Kane Gardner jumps into the fray with his all-purpose weapon tank, the "Metal Attacker", designed and developed by his obvious lover, scientist of Sophia's defense forces, Jennifer Cornet, and sets off to clean out the Invem Army, defeat Goez and save Sophia the 3rd.

The premise does fit more with the original setting, but the overall endgame goal is pretty much the same. Its only that the localized game has a slightly different story, which we all know has Jason Frudnick finding his pet frog Fred, and undergoing an identical adventure as Metafight's. I think Metfight's original story stands a bit more to me... and it was rather interesting to know some lore beneath it.

The bosses, that are Goez' top monstrous enforcers, they all do have names; Chlameatle, Gizzala, Z-88, Geroll, Lobsgator, Neo Gizzala(the copy-and-paste ice reskin of Gizzala), Fire Geroll, (fire reskin of Geroll), and Skelevenom(the penultimate boss before Goez, or in the localized game, "Plutonium Boss")

The enemies also have names. You can see them from this link, here - https://strategywiki.org/wiki/Blaster_Master/Enemies

The Blaster Master Zero trilogy neatly blends with the storylines of Metafight and Blaster Master together for a more unified storyline, and the palettes are all NES-styled, but clearly Hi-Bit, all the same(no past tech constraints included). The soundtrack and the sound effects, past and new, are all made through Famitracker, obviously, with the S5B sound chip expansion to accommodate Sunsoft's sound chip usage. You can notice that by ear.

I think you'll find the trilogy's gameplay quite enjoyable, the first giving some changes, even including mid-bosses in each area, and a very neat surprise at the end(if you can find all items and upgrades first), and the sequels improving so much more(with more surprises to find, too). Even the sprites from effects and bosses are undeniably big, as in screen-filling big, on some.

Yeah, these games are not yet mapped, but I have no idea of any existing tools/programs that covers ripping Inti Creates' maps... or if any have been made yet, but that's for another time.

Give it a go. You'll enjoy the rides Inti Creates and Sunsoft(the companies behind it by team-up) made. And, enjoy kicking Invem filth!

Of course, if you, and anybody else, too, really want to see the whole bestiaries of the whole trilogy, I've got image links of the trilogy's booklets that cover it. You might need a regular translator for it(just regular, to be exact), because its all in Japanese language. You can post the translated names when ready, too. I have no idea what their names are, either.

[SPOILER WARNINGS AHEAD!]

Blaster Master Zero Booklet, Pages 05 & 06, Enemy - https://kappa.vgmsite.com/soundtracks/blaster-master-zero-original-soundtrack/05%20Booklet%20p%2005-06.jpg
Blaster Master Zero Booklet, Pages 07 & 08, Boss Mutant - https://kappa.vgmsite.com/soundtracks/blaster-master-zero-original-soundtrack/06%20Booklet%20p%2007-08.jpg
Blaster Master Zero Booklet, Pages 09 & 10, Boss Mutant(continued) - https://kappa.vgmsite.com/soundtracks/blaster-master-zero-original-soundtrack/07%20Booklet%20p%2007-08.jpg

Blaster Master Zero II Booklet, Pages 11 & 12, Enemy - https://kappa.vgmsite.com/soundtracks/blaster-master-zero-2-ost/Image007.jpg
Blaster Master Zero II Booklet, Pages 13 & 14, Boss Mutant - https://kappa.vgmsite.com/soundtracks/blaster-master-zero-2-ost/Image008.jpg
Blaster Master Zero II Booklet, Pages 15 & 16, Boss Mutant(continued) - https://kappa.vgmsite.com/soundtracks/blaster-master-zero-2-ost/Image009.jpg

Blaster Master Zero III Booklet, Pages 11 & 12, Enemy - https://vgmsite.com/soundtracks/blaster-master-zero-3-ost/Booklet%20p.%2011-12.jpg
Blaster Master Zero III Booklet, Pages 13 & 14, Boss Mutant - https://vgmsite.com/soundtracks/blaster-master-zero-3-ost/Booklet%20p.%2013-14.jpg
Blaster Master Zero III Booklet, Pages 15 & 16, Boss Mutant(continued) - https://vgmsite.com/soundtracks/blaster-master-zero-3-ost/Booklet%20p.%2015-16.jpg

Honestly, when you find and face Skele-Venom(well, the bigger one, to be exact), you'll find its more monstrous variants, Skele-Veros, and Metal-Veros, quite challenging(I chose to go with those names because they're more original sounding than their generically inputted names, "Skeleton Boss", "Cerbeboss" and "Metal Cerbeboss").

I haven't played "Hard Corps: Uprising", but I took a quick look at some YT-videos and I understand why you pointed out the green lights style. It's everywhere.

You like it? Really accentuates their technological style. Even in some stages.

[mechaskrom]

Guess you had a tough time trying to get to the end. Well, there's already maps, so no need to fret about getting by.

I beat it on an emulator with the help of a ton of savestates. The game punishes you hard for even the slightest mistake, so savestates help a lot. Savestates are also helpful considering it's a long game with no passwords, which it really should have had.

I wasn't thinking about mapping it. It was just a childhood game that I never beat and a game praised by many so I just wanted to finally play through it.

You like it? Really accentuates their technological style. Even in some stages.

Not sure. Hard to say without actually playing the game. It felt a bit overused, but on the other hand it gave the game a coherent and characteristic style. That's something I feel is important in games. If you can tell what game/series/company it is just by a random image or sound clip, then it has good characteristic/soul (not sure what's the right word).

[Cyartog959]

I beat it on an emulator with the help of a ton of savestates. The game punishes you hard for even the slightest mistake, so savestates help a lot. Savestates are also helpful considering it's a long game with no passwords, which it really should have had.

I wasn't thinking about mapping it. It was just a childhood game that I never beat and a game praised by many so I just wanted to finally play through it.

Oh, yeah. That tough. Yeah, I kinda thought the same about what it should have had. No wonder.

I only meant the maps are available to see, not you to map it, because it was already covered.

Well, that's fine, and good for you that you finished it.

Not sure. Hard to say without actually playing the game. It felt a bit overused, but on the other hand it gave the game a coherent and characteristic style. That's something I feel is important in games. If you can tell what game/series/company it is just by a random image or sound clip, then it has good characteristic/soul (not sure what's the right word).

Characteristic is that word, but yeah, soul works as an alternate. Don't worry.

Well, when you get the chance, you can purchase and play the game. It's still up on Xbox(the  later consoles, at least) and PS3(still standing, thankfully. don't ask why, but, yeah.).

[Cyartog959]

Well, the one other thing I would like to talk about mini-bosses are the thought, effort, heart, and, oftentimes, soul in giving mini-bosses their unique, original designs... along with making them not too repetitive in their appearances.

The Mega Man and Kirby series do have many games that feature mini-bosses, though their amounts and originality really differs.

Many Mega Man games have mini-bosses, but only in select stages, not in each. The one thing is some are fought more than once mid-way through select stages, even with hazards place in to make these battles a bit tougher, like Paozo from Mega Man 9, fought not once, not twice, but THRICE in Concrete Man's stage, all in a row. Granted, that game was made for WiiWare, as well as PSN, and XBLA, and that's fine by me, but still.

Being that many were made for NES, SNES, and PS1(despite the CD's storage size that could've guaranteed some more, then), it seemed like there weren't much, due to the former's carts holding little space for game content at the time, even on SNES because the sounds are comprised of recorded DPCM samples, at least until Mega Man Zero, ZX, and ZX Advent, had a bit plenty more in these games.

Mega Man 11 was first game in the whole series to have a mini-boss fought in each of its main stages, and that gave me some satisfaction in fighting them in their own chosen stages. I fought them, and it was more fun.

Kirby's Dream Land, the first Kirby game, debuted mini-bosses, Poppy Bros. Sr., Lololo, and Kracko Jr., all original, and Kirby's Adventure introduced many new mini-bosses that went on to become recurring in many games to come, such as Bonkers, Mr. Frosty, Grand Wheelie, and Bugzzy.

What I don't find it select games in that series trying to make any regular enemy a mid-boss, like Waddle Dee, for instance. Sure, it may seem like any one enemy's trying to prove capable of being one, but it doesn't do any good being original, nor uniquely creative.

We had more new mini-bosses in later games, but others weren't chosen to reappear, like Batafire, Bombar, Gao Gao, Miasmoros, Water Galboros, Super Bonkers, Box Boxer, Big Metalun, Tedhaun, Rolling Turtle, Boxy, and Phan Phan. King Doo, Blocky, Gigant Blade, and Kibble Blade did reappear, but I feel they're more better favorites chosen for their reappearances as somewhat of a priority than having new mini-bosses to fight.

Kirby: Mass Attack does have mini-bosses, mostly unique, others slightly.

Super Kirby Clash have different variants of select mini-bosses and regular bosses, being mostly about battles and such, being a spin-off; Kibble Blade was given, Frost Kibble Blade, Bonkers was given Spark Bonkers, Kracko was given Venom Kracko, and Gigant Edge was given Gigant Edge was given Ignite Edge, and Ice Dragon was given Electric Dragon. all neat variants with designs that stood them apart.

Here's image links about their concept art...

Venom Kracko and Frost Kibble Blade - https://cdn.wikirby.com/b/b7/SKC_Venom_Kracko_and_Frost_Kibble_Blade_concept_artwork.jpg
Ignite Edge, Spark Bonkers, and Electric Dragon - https://cdn.wikirby.com/7/72/SKC_Team_Elementrio_concept_artwork.jpg

What I find quite disappointing from Kirby: Star Allies, and Kirby and the Forgotten Land is that they only have one new, debut mini-boss, whereas all the rest are just recurring mini-bosses from past games, the latter given "Wild" re-appearances. I can easily recognize their designs.

I'm feeling in my mind sometimes the designers behind Kirby are kinda having their own creative blocks in trying to create new minibosses in new games. Its a bit worrisome because it takes away brevity, and it doesn't add much to the series' overall bestiary total.

Zelda's Tri-Force Heroes' worlds in The Drablands all have mini-bosses fought at the end of their second dungeons, being stronger variants/alternatives of past and recent monsters, such as Electric Blob King from Buzz Blob Cave, Electric Blob Queen at Abyss of Agony, Freezlord at Snowball Ravine, Grim Repoe at Palace Noir, and Gigaleon at Deception Castle.

The reason they were not fought again in later dungeons is because they were given their own designs to stand out from normal monsters, and it keeps the game's brevity and ensures no single mini-boss gets fought more than one time. I find it enjoyable to fight unique mini-bosses without having to face them too many times or as downgraded enemies.

SMALL FACT: All the bosses, even the mini-bosses, were all designed by Grezzo's designer, Mikiharu Oiwa. That was confirmed true by that designer's answer via a post in Miiverse, while it was up.

I don't know if its more tougher to create new mini-bosses than normal bosses in new games, despite the more available RAM memory and stronger CPUs guaranteeing lot more than just bigger 2D levels and more mini-bosses to place them in, which I really like, but I think it shouldn't be. We have loads of tools, programs, and inspiration sources to create them. The matter is utilizing and harnessing them.

I felt like speaking more about them because their attention should be given more.