Topic: Sonic Advance - Sonic Colors Maps' sizes

[Cyartog959]

Those Sonic games have been great to have their maps seen, but playing through them is more enjoyable!

I've seen Sonic Advance's maps' sizes, and I was rather a bit disappointed to see them not larger/longer than Sonic 3 & Knuckles' maps, for any skilled player could, and many have, easily conquer them in less than minutes. Sure, they're all neat, but not truly long.

Then came Sonic Advance 2, and corrected the maps' length complaints people sent by having them six times larger, and I've seen how larger and longer they all have gotten! I was completely unsure how longer or shorter they could be, because their sizes weren't documented yet, but the former turned out true, and I loved the greater, longer length!

Even Egg Utopia Zone's Maps stand at their horizontal length range in the 30,000s, which not many games did... yet.

Sonic Rush went in, later on, and gave us the more longer Dead Line Zone, beating Egg Utopia's sizes by a more couple thousand pixels longer, nearing the 40,000 range, horizontally, that is.

Ok, Night Carnival, Act 2's length reached its greater length at about 41,948 pixels wide, but Dead Line Act 2 came close as the second longest level in the game.

Later again, Sonic Colors' DS version seemed to reach its longest level status yet. That would be Asteroid Coaster Act 2, reaching it at a whopping 44,256 pixels wide, and I see how its been a long ride, so to speak. Even speedrunners tried to conquer it as fast as they could, even going under 2 minutes & 30 seconds. Very impressive.

I previously thought any 2D game(not counting Metroidvanias in the mix) could try to top what size I hadn't seen yet, because they weren't documented yet, even Freedom Planet could've been that, but given the game was run on Clickteam's MMF2 engine, I strongly doubt their maps are close to that long size, cause that engine's size limit was at about 32,767, both horizontal and vertical(which didn't seem possible for lesser computers at that time, I can understand that).

So, I ask you this, even though some aren't fond of long levels, what is it you liked best about conquering them with what strategies used to do it?

[G.E.R.]

Cyberstation in Sonic Superstars has an original size 257993x19962 pixels, it's 4 times more max jpg size.
It was necessary to remove half map to bottom area of the map image.

[Cyartog959]

Cyberstation in Sonic Superstars has an original size 257993x19962 pixels, it's 4 times more max jpg size.
It was necessary to remove half map to bottom area of the map image.

OK...

I'm not quite fluent on this, but, what I can't grasp is the tantamount of 3D made into 2.5D for such maps to regular 2D maps in actual size, that is to say tileset & layout size wise.

I'm kinda shocked about that level's actual size, but I kinda know whatever 3D levels made kinda don't count to 2D game maps' actual length when playing them.

When viewed on any television, real handheld, or computer screen, regardless of screen ratio, the environments' 3D models closely look like how a 2D side-scrolling platform level is, but how they're viewed on the engine they're made from, you kinda spoke as if, well, they're far bigger than what we saw in-game... I think.

I just don't actually know how comparable to any actual length in their completion times, regardless of speed, when playing them. If only I could connect such comparisons between them.

I... kinda need some clarity on that matter. I'm a bit baffled.

[Cyartog959]

That's a fascinating breakdown of Sonic maps and their evolution in scale! Long levels like those in Sonic Advance 2, Sonic Rush, and Sonic Colors DS can be incredibly satisfying to conquer, especially when they test both speed and precision. What I enjoy most about tackling them is the sense of flow you get when mastering the level design—finding the fastest routes, chaining boosts, and nailing those perfectly timed jumps can make even enormous levels feel smooth and rewarding.

The strategy I lean on is patience during the first few runs to explore the routes and mechanics, then refining it with practice until I can sprint through sections without hesitation. In Sonic games, the challenge of balancing speed with control is what makes long levels shine; you’re not just racing against the clock, but also your own skill ceiling. And nothing feels better than hitting that perfect line through a massive stage!

That's a neat strategy to follow! Many people that played such levels that get longer and longer tend to feel more hesitant in finishing them, even in their blind runs, then, falter quite more in trying to get to the goal.

The maps from "Sonic Rush Adventure", the main stages, that is, from what I've seen, were designed to be a bit far more straightforward in harnessing the Boost, but the consequence, they're made shorter to finish than Rush's levels, many, at least, despite few made larger in size.

They were less labyrinthine, cut down the sense of flow that made the Boost kinda less enjoyable, and made less alternate routes to take, which is the point of having longer, larger levels, not to mention having the fun in taking them in repeated playthroughs for multiple characters.

Made the adventure less fun, too, even though the amount of written dialogue to convey some lore and filler chatter were crammed in to accommodate Sonic and Tails' time being stranded in Blaze's home dimension.

I have no quarrel of storyline exposition and lore in games, though. It was the overall writing vision, pacing, and execution that dragged that game down. At least, the writing there kept everyone in-character within their personalities.

By comparison, Plant Kingdom's maps were made quite shorter than Leaf Storm's, which is, to me a letdown. A skilled Sonic player using Boost a lot could clear them in less than a minute, tops, compared to past 2D Sonic games having maps in many levels that were beaten in that same estimate.

I'm kinda sure whatever upgraded proprietary computer tech Dimps had in making those Sonic games at that time benefited them to making such longer levels, but that stopped as they made more different games for later systems.

People expected slightly longer maps time and again, but prior to us knowing their sizes and being able to chart more larger maps, their expectations briefly changed.

Yet, still, the persistence to withstand longer and larger levels can't truly go away. All it takes for people to get used to them is some gradual adaptation.

[G.E.R.]

If you pay attention on maps for all games you find that ~2005-2012 games have only 2-3 main routes. This means that this levels were designed for fast clearing (see Blaze run, run Blaze run). Games after 2013 (Lost World, Mania, Forces, Superstars) return to searching+exploring+survivaling strategy and designed for longer clearing.

[Cyartog959]

I feel its always worth the challenge of conquering longer and larger levels in Sonic games, and I always love doing it, but there's a little something hardly anyone's noticed...

I'm talking about the Time Bonus scoring rewards, along with the Time Over caps.

With longer and larger 2D Sonic maps, not that such a thing couldn't be possible, but, why didn't the Time Over cap nor the Time Bonus ranges for time amounts for points get adjusted in the first place? Moreover, why didn't bosses' points amounts get also increased in some tougher, later Zones, even the mini-bosses?

To some that might recall, in many, key past games gave out more points to bosses for their defeats in later levels at the end, even up to the final boss and/or true final boss giving out the highest amount of points added to the final, overall players' score.

Sonic the Hedgehog's scoring amounts for Time Bonus and the bosses hardly changed to accommodate for longer levels and/or tougher bosses, even with the amounts of hits to defeat above 8, compared to many.

Since the beginning, 2D Sonic games hardly had their ranges for Time Bonuses that depended on how fast players could get, alongside, well, defeating bosses.

From Sonic 1 to 2, the Time Bonus ranges were set at the fastest gaining 50,000 to any completing any Zone's Acts the fastest, which is under 30 seconds, while pretty much, all bosses award 1,000 for their defeat. Sonic 3 readjusted that range to under a minute... until Sonic Mania reverted that range back to 30 seconds.

I tell you, with Sonic Mania's large levels, it's quite nearly impossible for anyone to get 50,000 in under 30 seconds without using Debug Mode. How could anybody expect that tough task to be done like that, even without cheats?

Moreover, all the mini and major bosses from Sonic 3's both halves and Sonic Mania give out just 1,000 for their defeat, not raised above for the main bosses and/or later, tougher bosses in later Zones, even the final/true final bosses themselves.

To put that shortly, minibosses, maybe the same's ok, major bosses, more than 1,000, tougher bosses in later Zones should also have their values upped than the early Zones', and the final and true final bosses should give out the most amounts in the games.

In my opinion, it's kinda very hollow for said bosses to give so very little after everything any player has been through. What was good with the greater risks without the greater rewards to accommodate it all?

Should the need for longer levels and/or tougher bosses with more hits to defeat in Sonic games come again, well, I feel the score bonus ranges for fastest times in any stage, as well as all bosses, regardless of status, should also have their point values increased.

This post's for covering those of actual 2D Sonic games concerning score bonus rewarding ranges, not counting those trying to do different takes on the 2D adventures.

I hope any around here may think about that.