Topic: What 2D Game Engines are best for making levels and their maps?

[Cyartog959]

I kinda had some thoughts on those that are making 2D games, even maps, through engines capable of 2D games, not counting engines in 2.5D or 3D.

2D games of all kinds have come quite a long way from their past years, from Mario, through Sonic, and others, even seeing more larger, longer maps by having stronger CPUs, more RAM, and other small tech advancements and new programs to make 2D game making more easier and more efficient.

Larger maps weren't previously reachable before that, even though clever trickery via programmers did made it so, like how Sonic 3's Hydrocity Zone's maps were more larger and longer than Sonic 2's Chemical Plant Zone's, from what I've read, but now, they are, and still will be remembered for how well-designed they are, not to mention the routes made for the larger sizes. How people, speedrunners or not, traverses their routes differs, but the choice is all up to them.

Speedrunners, in a different matter, do have no problem blazing through them, from small maps to latest, longer maps, because they all like to take on the challenge on clearing them in shorter times than may people play normally, and I admire their efforts for going for their own records.

I've loved longer and/or larger maps in 2D games, because of my curiosities of 'em, and was astounded by Sonic Colors DS' Asteroid Coaster Act 2's size, which is 44,256 pixels wide, the longest in any 2D Sonic game by far(not counting other maps that surpass the horizontal length, but not in actual completion length, like Sonic Superstars, for instance), and Hollow Knight's overall Hallownest map size of 72,622 pixels wide and 48,128 pixels tall, but I feel, depending on well suited flows to clear them, we could see more maps longer/larger than that, thanks to RAM memory increases, but the game engines, if any are in need of it, should be updated to accommodate those larger amounts, not to mention stronger CPUs for computers.

I do my best to try not to gripe about 'em, too, despite how longer and/or larger they're still getting.

With all the extra computing processing power and RAM memory, I personally feel people who make 2D games should take better advantage of 'em to make far more longer/ larger maps and make the best of 'em before we get more increases of 'em.

So, I ask anyone on the VGMaps community this, what do you think of what 2D game engines are more suited to making games and their maps, preferably large, long maps?

They can be used to make regular platformers inspired by the likes of whatever series people love, like Sonic, classic Zelda, or Metroidvanias.

I could count GameMaker being one, and Clickteam Fusion, but I also count Retro Engine(if you've not heard of it yet, that is) being one, too, because its tailored for 2D games besides Sonic.

What other advantages and disadvantages between specific 2D game engines could you also lay us out on?

[Cyartog959]

Well, I hardly saw anyone send in their thoughts on 2D engines lately, 'cause they seem a bit busy or forgetful to reply, so, why not I give it a go? I didn't depend on waiting too long for it, anyway.

The Hatch Engine, from my perspective, is a real good 2D game engine, and its usage seems really good for 2D games, one of which is a Sonic fangame, Sonic Galactic. From what I've seen in the second demo, the engine is capable of handling levels much larger and longer than what we've got so far, even Coral Garden Act 1's size seems to surpass that of Sonic Colors' DS version's Asteroid Coaster Act 2's size and length, by comparison.

I can see loads of potential for making new 2D games of the Hi-Bit variety, not limiting to games made for NES, SNES, nor PS1 alone. If I only know how to easily download that engine, I'd use it to see what it is capable of.

Maybe it could be helpful to past games that ran on prior engines that lacked upkeep and specific features to keep it smooth and efficient, such as Clickteam's Fusion, whose version was MMF2 before it updated to CF2.5 and used for Freedom Planet.

The Retro Engine is a good engine that delivered Sonic games, from past reduxes of past 2D Sonic games to the original game, "Sonic Mania" and its update, "Plus", its great potential is amazing. Its recent usage was for the latest compilation, "Sonic Origins", which had it updated to Version 5U to allow past versions of the engine work in it, but so far, no other game's use it yet. Hope people get to use it more soon.

...That's what I've got so far.

[Cyartog959]

A very small annoyance about finding the actual application to see and run Hatch Game Engine, after downloading the engine's source code, there's big confusion on where to find it so anyone can use it.

It's been updated lately to 1.3, as I've read, but newcomers who downloaded it have currently no guidance on how and where to find the engine to actually start making games on it.

I do, however have this link for the engine from GitHub itself... more or less.

Here's the GitHub link to it, in its public release - https://github.com/HatchGameEngine/HatchGameEngine

I've read the release notes about the updates because I got curiously intrigued about the engine, and yet, as far as I've seen, I don't see any desktop shortcut to start and use that engine to make and create whatever game anyone wants, for I thought it was a far more accessible 2D game engine that's really fun to use, and it really bothers me, for I've been curious about how and what it does. I only saw the source code to it, but nothing else.

If someone could take time to give guidance on how to find the engine after downloading, any tutorial, step-by-step guide, video or otherwise, or even talk to the devs behind the engine about increased accessibility, well, that'd be great. Hopefully, if any of you've got time, you can ask the creator responsible for it and/or the users that are versed into it.

The creator's name is Aknekt, a talented programmer, who, as I've briefly read, worked on Evening Star in Sonic Origins as Support Engineer for Retro Engine.

Pic link from his Twitter account is here as proof - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FV9Fx_0UIAAuC54?format=jpg&name=large

One note, the level editor's not included in the engine, but I already know Tiled covers that concern when using it to bring levels to that engine. The editor's format is compatible, after all.

[mechaskrom]

Isn't the Hatch Game Engine just a code framework/library and you have to code/write your game around it? I.e. it's not a visual game maker program like Game/RPG maker or Clickteam Fusion.

[Cyartog959]

Isn't the Hatch Game Engine just a code framework/library and you have to code/write your game around it? I.e. it's not a visual game maker program like Game/RPG maker or Clickteam Fusion.

Yeah... I kinda grasped it. And the steps to build it from scratch pretty much needs to be learned, not to mention having some knowledge and experience.

Guess that's a difference from engines that are visual game makers, not like what I thought the Hatch Game Engine was.

I thought there weren't any tutorials in setting up that framework for anyone, even for those who aren't familiar with game and engine programming yet, especially when it comes to doing it by C++, which as I've read the engine's made with.

So far, I've seen its capabilities with Sonic Galactic, due to it following, and adhering to, the formula started from Sonic the Hedgehog 3, and continued into Sonic Mania(Freedom Planet, though, did actually bring that formula back when no other game seemed to continue it before it got slightly modified while undergoing its change from a Sonic fangame to an indie game, from what I read and remember before), and I thought it would be a great 2D engine or framework for anyone to work with.

Retro Engine took on the visual game maker state, from what I've seen, but Hatch, being a framework... Yeah. I thought otherwise.

[Cyartog959]

I kinda have a few curiosities in regards to Hatch Engine's adaptability to frameworks, like the OpenMania Framework, for instance.

I don't know anyone that has prior experience with it, but, does that engine adopt to custom-made frameworks?

I mean, I could only imagine it being compatible with custom frameworks based on those from past games, even indies, carried over from other engines' workings and such.

Well, yeah, anybody can create one, but what steps are needed to do it and have it adapted to a specific game of anyone's choosing?

What I already gathered, Freedom Planet was made in Multimedia Fusion 2 before it upgraded to Clickteam Fusion 2.5, and despite the impressive feats on it, other limitations kept the game from increasing its potential and expanding, as was formerly planed, such as DLC support and a better game patching pipeline, I think. That, and it had a previous map size constraint, regardless of their amounts in any 2D stage.

I already know Hatch is compatible with Tiled's own .tmx format, and it can handle big maps; my one example was Sonic Galactic's Coral Garden Act 1, whose size is, just from one video I've seen a bit after Demo 2's launch, but was taken from before it, 64,000 x 11,200. Unusually long and large being the game's second Zone, but yeah.

Guess it was made at that size to have its map layout designers to create a unique path for Knuckles in Act 2, even including an exclusive mid-Act mini-boss for him to fight. I've tried it, and it was more fun. Don't know if Act 2's one whole big map, or divided into 3 maps.

Video link's here as proof, just for anyone to watch(small advisory, the video has the Act's map layout not yet finalized, so its different from before it got changed for Demo 2's launch) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TviqDQ1lGog

At mark 13:18, look at the level map's size, just below "Camera".

I really felt a bit of exhaustion at first playing it, but, that Act was fun to play through. And, it did take any player about 6 minutes to get to the end and face the mini-boss.

Spark the Electric Jester was also made in CF2.5, and the game was neat for any that played it.

I wonder if such games would be compatible with Hatch Engine by custom frameworks that retains all the familiar workings made in existing engines, but with none of the dragging constraints and outsourcing to other companies for console porting. I also wonder if it can be capable of console porting.

Makes me think of such games as these receiving updated re-releases on Hatch and having additional content built from scratch.

Oh, and the engine's next update is already in the works, 1.4, and I guess, from my recent visits to its Github page, a user there, Lactozilla, is spearheading development now. If anybody's up to it, volunteer as contributors to its development.