Author Topic: RE: Why do you guys make lousy maps?  (Read 11757 times)

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Offline troydt

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RE: Why do you guys make lousy maps?
« on: August 10, 2007, 08:46:44 PM »
You people who continually submit half completed maps to VGMAPS.com make me wonder. Why don't any of you take pride in your maps like they do at Ian-Albert.com or at For-The-Tribe.com? These maps are things meant to help poor souls struggling through the games to complete them correctly and quickly. Why don't you people take 10 seconds more and add in the enemies and the hidden items and things like that. I thought Ian-Albert had some great maps, though several projects were incomplete and he doesn't seem to work on them regularly. I checked out for-the-tribe.com and although it seems to be a very new site, it has great potential and a range of new maps coming including (if I'm guessing right) a Zelda: A Link to the Past Interactive Map/Site.

Offline TerraEsperZ

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RE: Why do you guys make lousy maps?
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2007, 10:32:57 PM »
I'll ignore the obvious flame bait for now, and just ask you a question before moving further.



Are you adressing people who submit incomplete maps (of which there are many, but few on the forums itself as we tend to make suggestions to make them improve their work), or everyone who's ever submitted a map to the site? You seem pretty intent on insulting everyone here so who knows if you're just looking for a reaction or if you're genuinely interested in seeing better work posted.



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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me
Current project that are on hold because job burnout :
-Drill Dozer (GBA)
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Offline Revned

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RE: Why do you guys make lousy maps?
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2007, 01:16:08 AM »
*sigh* Many of us spend hours and hours working on maps. Community sites like this collect everything, good or bad. You've just seen the bad stuff, because many of the map sets are as good or better than the ones at the sites you mentioned.

Offline Maxim

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RE: Why do you guys make lousy maps?
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2007, 03:28:10 AM »
Maps aren't supposed to be walkthroughs, they're supposed to be what the game shows. Certainly, adding enemies is a lot more work, and when the game has random placement, entirely silly. However, there's still a lot of options when making a map, and it comes down to personal taste. If you don't like it, remake the maps and prove how much better your versions are.

Offline Raccoon Sam

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RE: Why do you guys make lousy maps?
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2007, 04:10:45 AM »
Pretty much the only way to rip maps with Sprites/Objects being at their EXACT positions is through a game editor or a level viewer utility (Stefan Mahrla and SMW hint hint). It doesn't take too much time and gives out excellent results.

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Offline TerraEsperZ

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Why do you guys make lousy maps?
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2007, 07:38:14 AM »
I wonder if he'll even bother to stick around and defend his "arguments".



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me
Current project that are on hold because job burnout :
-Drill Dozer (GBA)
-Sonic 3D Blast (Genesis)
-Naya's Quest (PC)

Offline troydt

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RE: Why do you guys make lousy maps?
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2007, 08:49:45 AM »
Sorry. I wasn't trying to offend anyone or anything like that. I was merely stating that many of these maps could be improved with a little more time and effort.

Offline troydt

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RE: Why do you guys make lousy maps?
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2007, 08:53:22 AM »
I enjoyed your quote of Captain Picard, but realize-



If something is done right, it helps improve the freedom of others who view these maps. Or do you people just make maps as fast as possible and submit them to bask in your own self glory?

Offline RT 55J

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RE: Why do you guys make lousy maps?
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2007, 11:14:05 AM »
Define "incomplete."

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Offline TerraEsperZ

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RE: Why do you guys make lousy maps?
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2007, 11:26:44 AM »
Sorry. I wasn't trying to offend anyone or anything like that. I was merely stating that many of these maps could be improved with a little more time and effort.




Well, it sounds better and less confrontational when said like this, so why not say that in the first place ;)



Maybe some people map as fast as possible and don't care about the quality of their maps, but they mostly aren't on the forum. You'll notice that there are only a small number of regular posters here, and we usually like to ask for criticism and comments before submitting our work. That's what the "Map In Progress" board is there for, and if you really care I suggest you visit and comment there.



But there are many mappers who just submit maps and never come here, so all you can is send them an email and hope they'll care to respond.



Personally, I put a lot of care in the maps I make. If I don't include enemies, items or something else in a map, there's either a technical or aesthetic reason for it. In fact, I personally obsess over the stupidest of issues in my work, things that most people wouldn't notice or care about.



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me
Current project that are on hold because job burnout :
-Drill Dozer (GBA)
-Sonic 3D Blast (Genesis)
-Naya's Quest (PC)

Offline Fearnavigatr

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RE: Why do you guys make lousy maps?
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2007, 05:25:49 PM »
The thing in question here seems to be the intended use of these maps.



What I like to think is that a lot of the maps are made for that panorama view of the whole area, a beautiful assembly to please the interested (and they can make darn good wallpapers).



With my DKL2 maps, rather than just giving views of the area, I aim to visually catalogue the full game, including the locations of every single item and enemy. They're definitely helpful for the lost souls, but in no way was helping people out ever my intention.



So not necessarily should maps be limited to showing the way, it is also a form of art. It's not about the effort, it's the intention.

Offline marioman

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RE: Why do you guys make lousy maps?
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2007, 06:25:22 PM »
^ Wallpapers eh?  I never thought of that.

Offline Maxim

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RE: Why do you guys make lousy maps?
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2007, 06:19:40 AM »
Game maps aren't great wallpapers because they're high-contrast and detailed. They look cool but are lousy to get work done with.

Offline marioman

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RE: Why do you guys make lousy maps?
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2007, 11:01:00 AM »
Maybe that's why I never thought of it.  :)

Offline DarkWolf

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RE: Why do you guys make lousy maps?
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2007, 03:57:06 PM »
First, it takes longer than ten seconds to add sprites to a map.  Doing a map with both background layers and sprites usually means going over the level several times.



Second, I don't understand how you can use the word "lousy" in the post subject and not intend to offend anyone.



Last, if you don't like the quality of the maps,  start mapping yourself.  I get really tired of people bitching about projects that people do on their own time, free of charge to the public.  You get what you pay for.