Author Topic: Rare NES games (hacks/homemade)  (Read 18601 times)

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Offline Will

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Rare NES games (hacks/homemade)
« on: March 29, 2008, 02:53:39 AM »
I have just finished doing all 5 maps for the NES game Harry Potter (Yep it's the Philosopher's Stone) and when you have ever imagined beating up Dudley, Aunt Petunia and Uncle Vernon in a game. Next I've done the NES version stages of Fatal Fury 2 (I never thought that version existed) and finally I've completed the NES version of World Heroes 2 which has characters extracted from TV or old games like Goku (From Dragonball), Leo (From Ninja Turtles), King Koopa (From Super Mario) and many others. I will turn my attention towards the NES games 'The King of Fighters 96'' and KOF 99'.

Offline JonLeung

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RE: Rare NES games (hacks/homemade)
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2008, 01:31:24 PM »
I'm not sure I would want to put up maps of games that are hacked/modified/unofficial/unreleased in cartridge format.  (Yes, this particular week I DO see the irony in that statement - please let that slide.  >_<)  NES games later than 1994 are sketchy.



Just because someone made something that can run in a NES emulator doesn't mean I have treat it the same as other games that are unquestionably on anyone's official NES release list.  I would probably not even accept them.



There are already a couple games in the PC section that I had a hard time deciding whether I should put them up, and I still question their value here.



I'm sure that comes off as being very arrogant especially to homebrew coders, but honestly - if you aren't officially published by a major company, how many people do you think would be coming here or GameFAQs to learn about your game?  I'm not here to promote ROM hacks.



I'm ready for the flames.  :P

Offline Will

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RE: Rare NES games (hacks/homemade)
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2008, 01:52:06 PM »
I don't think they are hacked, modified or unofficial but not popular maybe. I know they must be original according to my research on Wikipedia, but if an article or review has changed, I cannot be certain. I agree that hacked versions are not good at all even if they are a famous title like Harry Potter, but the freeware sites I go to get non-ESA protected roms don't indicate they are hacked and I do trust them, take www.rom-world.com for instance. If any expert on this site knows more, keep me briefed.

Offline TerraEsperZ

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RE: Rare NES games (hacks/homemade)
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2008, 02:25:18 PM »
I don't know. While I can understand not wanting pirate games like Somari and such, some game hacks are so well done that it would be a shame if someone wanted to make maps and nobody would want to put them up.



I'm thinking hacks like Castlevania: Chorus of Mysteries, Mario Adventure, Rockman No Constancy and Super Demo World, that are extensive, complete and somewhat known, should be allowed if only because they are interesting and showcase a lot of work and talent. The same should also hold for home-made games that are popular like Cave Story, although I recognize that deciding what would be allowed and what wouldn't would be a bitch to decide if you want to be fair to everyone.



At any rate, hacks and home-made games maps, if allowed, should go into their own sections and labeled as such.



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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



Current projects: Sonic CD (Sega CD), Mega Man V (GB), Mega Man Zero (GBA), Battletoads (NES)
Current project that I really should try to finish:
-Drill Dozer (GBA)
-Sonic 3D Blast (Genesis)
-Naya's Quest (PC)

Pending project:
-A ton of stuff that will never be finished

Offline JonLeung

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RE: Rare NES games (hacks/homemade)
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2008, 03:11:06 PM »
TerraEsperZ Said:
I'm thinking hacks like Castlevania: Chorus of Mysteries, Mario Adventure, Rockman No Constancy and Super Demo World, that are extensive, complete and somewhat known, should be allowed if only because they are interesting and showcase a lot of work and talent.


Now this is my opinion, but I'm even more leery of hacks of existing franchises than original works.  (Again, the irony...)  While what I've seen of Super Demo World show some interesting use of the original Super Mario World's engine and are certainly creative, even if they might turn out to be improved or more fun to play it still feels like a knock-off.  It's like Super Mario World is the recognizeable version, the real deal, the one and only.  Ask anyone who doesn't have the Internet, and they won't know what Super Demo World is.



I was reading about Chex Quest on Wikipedia just the other day.  You know, the Doom clone packaged with Chex cereal - and literally a hacked Doom - some Doom things like the end image with the decapitated bunny still exist in the data - the tricky thing is that this game has seen a release on a disc.  If someone mapped it, would I have to accept it because it has a fanbase AND a disc?  Wouldn't it be easier for me to not accept anything I question for more than a second?



TerraEsperZ Said:
The same should also hold for home-made games that are popular like Cave Story, although I recognize that deciding what would be allowed and what wouldn't would be a bitch to decide if you want to be fair to everyone.



At any rate, hacks and home-made games maps, if allowed, should go into their own sections and labeled as such.


We all know why I'm behind on putting up maps right now.  But even when I'm up-to-date, it's a huge chunk of my weekend just to stay on top.  There are so many games that ought to be mapped.  There are so many things about the site I ought to deal with that since its inception I still haven't addressed.  Opening a hacks section may open a can of worms I'm not prepared to have to deal with as well.



It's not just about the time it takes for me to put them up.  Even if it took milliseconds or there was some kind of auto-approve and auto-publish function available...  I just don't feel they belong.



There are over 6700 Super NES ROMs last I checked.  To me, something like 3/4 of that, the unofficial games have a fraction of the value that any single one official game fully mapped would have.



You can map homemade and hacked games all you want, but I'm going to put this out right now: I may not, and likely will not, accept them.  You'd have to be prepared to convince me if you think it's worth it.



Yeah, I'm putting the "dick" in "dictator" right now.  But if I had infinite time in the world, I would consider a hacks section.  Unfortunately, I don't have that kind of time.

Offline TerraEsperZ

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RE: Rare NES games (hacks/homemade)
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2008, 03:45:32 PM »
I understand your point full well and I only provided my opinion, not what I wanted you to do.



For one, most of the hacks out there are terrible.  I only mentioned the few I knew that I found good, knowing full well that to be fair, you either have to accept all hacks or none at all; accepting only those you personally think are of value would make people question you about it incessantly. And I certainly wouldn't ask anyone to put in efforts that I wouldn't myself to manage the additional work involved in hack maps.



I think a compromise that satisfies no one fully but doesn't involve your time in any way would be to simply post maps of hacks in a thread in the forum, so long as it's not meant simply to advertise said hack, knowing full well that they'll never go on the main site.



Heck, it might make some people want to share good hacks with us. I mean, as much as I love Super Mario Bros. 3, I find Mario Adventure to be a welcome evolution of the game with great ideas and secrets. I also love it when people manage to add new music in a NES game, not just music from another one.



In any case, we understand each other,



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



Current projects: Sonic CD (Sega CD), Mega Man V (GB), Mega Man Zero (GBA), Battletoads (NES)
Current project that I really should try to finish:
-Drill Dozer (GBA)
-Sonic 3D Blast (Genesis)
-Naya's Quest (PC)

Pending project:
-A ton of stuff that will never be finished

Offline JonLeung

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RE: Rare NES games (hacks/homemade)
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2008, 03:53:57 PM »
I suppose that is a good point - Will (and anyone else) could post maps of hacks in a forum thread.  Then I wouldn't have to be the filter through which maps are published.



There's always ImageShack.



Of course, Revned will make evident the fact that I've been a Nazi about the whole image item thing again.  :P



I should try to find an official release list for games on each game system, especially long-retired ones.  Don't know how reliable Wikipedia is on this regard.  I think GameFAQs, while pretty good, ocassionally misses some, but moreso lists lots of duplicates (different regions, for example, with no clear distinction just looking at the list until you click on the name for the game info).  PC games are a different story, as in, infinitely more difficult, with no central approver of games that appear for it.  Not just the PC, but any other computer as well, really.

Offline RT 55J

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RE: Rare NES games (hacks/homemade)
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2008, 10:45:08 AM »
I think that as long as a game is not a knock-off of an existing IP (ie a ROM hacks, fangames, pirate junk) maps for it should be accepted provided it's an actual game.

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Offline Will

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RE: Rare NES games (hacks/homemade)
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2008, 12:19:26 PM »
Do you know the game "All Night Nippon - Super Mario (J)" in the NES section? Isn't that a hacked or fanmade game? It looks incomplete and it looks like the goombas and the mushroom head are replaced, but is that a sign of hacking or such?

Offline TerraEsperZ

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RE: Rare NES games (hacks/homemade)
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2008, 12:34:47 PM »
That game is official though. Yes, it's a hack but a promotional one for a Japanese TV show of the time. In that sense, if that acceptable, then a Doom clone like Chex Quest probably would since the Doom source is freely available for anyone to publish games with.



Hope I didn't open a can of worm there...



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



Current projects: Sonic CD (Sega CD), Mega Man V (GB), Mega Man Zero (GBA), Battletoads (NES)
Current project that I really should try to finish:
-Drill Dozer (GBA)
-Sonic 3D Blast (Genesis)
-Naya's Quest (PC)

Pending project:
-A ton of stuff that will never be finished

Offline RT 55J

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RE: Rare NES games (hacks/homemade)
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2008, 04:20:15 PM »
Just because a game uses the same engine as another does not mean it is a hack.

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Offline DarkWolf

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RE: Rare NES games (hacks/homemade)
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2008, 06:52:23 PM »
Holy crap, do we really need the maps from pirate fighting games on the NES?



I've done some fighting games myself, and I've also done some obscure games that no one probably cares about.  But I've also done some pretty good sets IMO, and I think the overall goal should be quality over quantity.

Offline Will

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RE: Rare NES games (hacks/homemade)
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2008, 02:09:41 AM »
I suppose we should focus our attention on the original games for maps, especially popular titles like Megaman (Megaman Board has has not yet begun). And speaking of popular titles, I have just finished and sent the complete set of maps from the SMS game "Ninja Gaiden".

Offline ReyVGM

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RE: Rare NES games (hacks/homemade)
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2008, 05:10:08 PM »
I agree with not putting maps of hacked/pirated games.

If you do that, then you will have to accept maps from every other piece of sh*t, incomplete, crappy hack (more than 100 just for Sup Mario Bros).



All those NES Harry Potter, Fatal Fury, Street Fighter, etc games are public domain/pirate/hacked games.



While some hacks are nice, it will just open the floodgates for all the other 99% of crap.

 

I'm all for putting maps of officially unreleased games, such as Star Fox 2 or Shantae GBA though.

Offline TerraEsperZ

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RE: Rare NES games (hacks/homemade)
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2009, 08:20:07 PM »
Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but I don't thin JonLeung ever confirmed his stance on mapping games that are complete and have fully working ROM dumps but were never released (Star Trek V (NES), The California Raisins (NES), Star Fox 2 (SNES)).



I'm asking purely out of curiosity since tne new Star Trek movie brought back a bit of the old Trekkie in me and eventually led me to discover that Star Trek V ROM for the NES which, thankfully was never released. It's not even bad technically by the way, but the whole game design is severely lacking and leaves one asking "Why was money and effort wasted on this bland thing?".



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Current project: Castlevania Legends (GB)



Upcoming project: Not sure yet
Current project that I really should try to finish:
-Drill Dozer (GBA)
-Sonic 3D Blast (Genesis)
-Naya's Quest (PC)

Pending project:
-A ton of stuff that will never be finished