VGMaps

General Boards => Map Gab => Topic started by: Troy Lundin on October 18, 2011, 10:28:52 pm

Title: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Troy Lundin on October 18, 2011, 10:28:52 pm
I didn't see this game in the atlas yet. If it has already been done or reserved, let me know.

I have found the following offsets, which, in my opinion, are the only ones needed to make maps:

Character position
Screen position
Map ID
Animations

I have already done about 50 maps in the past hour or so. This game has a ton of maps.

The daytime feature isn't really a dynamic feature as you would think. Each map has a morning, afternoon, evening and night version.
This means there are four versions of each map. I'll give an example.

Map ID   Area
03D4     Topple Outskirts (Morning)
03D5     Topple Outskirts (Afternoon)
03D6     Topple Outskirts (Evening)
03D7     Topple Outskirts (Night)

Yes, you read that correctly. Topple Outskirts (Night) is map number 983.

The amount of maps isn't really an issue as it takes less than two minutes to complete a big map.
The above mentioned maps were completed in less than 30 seconds each.

Attached are the maps I mentioned above.
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Trop on October 18, 2011, 10:46:51 pm
Ack!  People keep beating me to map the SD games.  What's next, Children of Mana, Heroes of Mana?  Oh well.

So you can just rip rooms right out of this game huh?  I would've done it the hard way with a walk through walls code and screen shots.  That's the reason I didn't say anything in your compile thread.  I've never made a map from parts alone, every time I try something like that I mess up horribly.  And that's the reason I've never gotten anywhere mapping Legend of Mana, I'd have to do it with parts.

If you're getting these maps so easily you'll probably have this game fully done in no time, can't wait to see it.
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Troy Lundin on October 18, 2011, 11:58:39 pm
I'm not ripping the maps out of the game. It's done with screenshots.
I made a nifty program that makes this process so ridiculously easy that I chuckle a bit just thinking about it.

I used to piece together screenshots by hand, but being a self-taught programmer makes me want to go the extra mile.
Maybe I'll make a short video of how I do it if people are interested. And, yes, I am using a walk through walls code of sorts.

Also, if you are super knowledgeable about the game you should help me out. I know next to nothing about the storyline or anything about the game for that matter.
All I really know is that it was Final Fantasy Adventure for the GB, I think. When I make maps I just follow an online walkthrough and capture the maps as I go.

To give you an idea of how fast I can map with my program: I did all 389 maps from Dawn of Souls (FF2) in about two hours yesterday. Then I saw someone already did maps for the game. :(
I made sure to check first this time.
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Grizzly on October 19, 2011, 08:29:13 am
Yes, I am definitely interested in how you do those maps and what the program does for you.

I also already tried creating a program like the Autostitcher but for slower paced screenshots (i.e. not each from each frame but when pressed a key manually) with visible sprites. The program had to find overlapping portions of each two screenshots and also recognize sprites. But I already had difficulties with finding overlapping portions when using it on Indiana Jones 4: The Action Game, as seen below - although most screenshots fit perfectly to form a map, some are misplaced and at the moment there's no possibility to interact with the map creation process of the program. So I never got around identifiying sprites. I plan to work on it again in the future, though - by first adding an assisted mode where the program tries a map layout automatically and the user chooses which screenshots have to be placed at a different position. But I didn't have time for it lately.
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Trop on October 19, 2011, 09:13:32 am
I'm certainly knowledgeable about Sword of Mana.  Sword is a remake of FFA but they changed some things, in fact everything but the story line.  Do you need helping piecing everything together or something?
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Troy Lundin on October 19, 2011, 09:41:35 am
@Trop: When I create the maps I turn off the sprite layer and any animations for consistency.
Just so happens the chests in Sword of Mana are part of the sprite layer. No idea if they are randomly placed or if they have static locations.

If you were to help me out, I could just give you the maps I create (sans the sprite layer) and you could add any pertinent sprites to them.

@Grizzly: I tried to add auto-stitching to my program but failed miserably. Honestly, I seemed awfully complicated from the examples I found online. And those examples were for photographs.
I'll put together a video some time today if I have time.
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Maxim on October 19, 2011, 10:05:36 am
Photo stitching involves projecting images onto a sphere, finding points of interest and aligning them, then re-drawing back on a flat image. This is a very tricky process at the best of times.

Grizzly is referring to Screenshot Autostitcher (http://www.smspower.org/maxim/Software/ScreenshotAutostitcher) which tries to find the best placement for consecutive screenshots by finding the point of overlap where they line up the most, which works best when there are lots of closely-aligned screenshots, or even a video of the game.

There's also Animation merger (http://bisqwit.iki.fi/source/animmerger.html) which is a bit more powerful (for mapping; it can certainly produce some awesome but questionably useful animated stuff too) but possibly less friendly.
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Paco on October 19, 2011, 10:23:12 am
Also, if you are super knowledgeable about the game you should help me out. I know next to nothing about the storyline or anything about the game for that matter. All I really know is that it was Final Fantasy Adventure for the GB, I think.

or called Mystic Quest in Europa or Seiken Densetsu in Japan. ^^ played it to death when i was a Kid, so i think i should know alot about it, but Sword of Mana is different so i cant promise much.

When I make maps I just follow an online walkthrough and capture the maps as I go.

That is how i do it too. ^^
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Troy Lundin on October 19, 2011, 10:56:52 am
Here is a video of my capturing a small map from Sword of Mana. http://www.4shared.com/file/cTBEAbik/Map_Creator_Show.html (http://www.4shared.com/file/cTBEAbik/Map_Creator_Show.html)
The video is one minute in length and has a screen resolution of 1920x1080.

Let me explain what is going on.

I start by showing I am only using a walk through walls code (I call it Freemove). The last five codes freeze flower, grass and water animations. Sword of Mana has an independently moving screen. This means when the screen reaches the edge it stops even though your character can keep moving. This means I have to find the address for the screen coordinates as well as the address for the character coordinates.

I start out in the upper-left corner of the map, as this is where I was when I entered the map. In this game, like most, the co-ordinates loop around. This means if I move my character to the left of zero on the x axis, it loop around to 65,535. I then enter the map menu (any menu works) to refresh the position of the screen. Since I am at X co-ordinate 65,000+ the screen tries to follow but will only go as far as the game allows. This shows me the right edge of the map.

I do the same procedure for the Y-axis. This gives me the bottom-right corner of the map. I can now resize the canvas to the exact size of the map, making things a bit easier to see.

All that is left is to fill in the empty spots. As you can see, I take six screenshots total making the entire process take ~40 seconds.
It's slower than usual but I was trying not to hit the screen transition points.

In the program window, you can see in the output image (the map I am creating) a filled red square and an empty red rectangle.
These represent the character and screen positions, respectively. This makes it easy to see where everything is at and where the captured image will land.

There are other features, such as stepping that I can show as well. Stepping allowed me to make a map of the FFV Advance world map in under five minutes.
Please note that my program requires at least character co-ordinates to work properly. It uses these to track where you are on a global scale.
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Trop on October 19, 2011, 01:39:12 pm
Sure I could put them together like that.  How much stuff do you want on them though?  Just chests?  Chests and NPCs?  Chests, NPCs, and Monsters?  Chests, NPC's, Monsters, Puzzle Solutions, Rare Items, etc, etc ,etc?
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Troy Lundin on October 19, 2011, 02:12:03 pm
Positively chests, as long as they are static and not random placement. It confused me that they share the sprite layer.
I only like NPCs if they are important. Ones that wander around are pretty pointless. I guess NPCs that are required for story progression? It's still not that important.
Mobs can be placed off the maps themselves. Maybe in the empty spaces. Putting them on the map is pointless since they are random anyway.

I can do a sample to give you an idea. Give me time to get some areas completed first. This game is driving me bonkers with it's different maps based on time of day. If anyone knows a code to stop the time of day from changing, I would love to have it.


Edit: I attached a sample image of Batmo Cave. I made it simple. There is a 4 pixel space between images and the borders. You could put treasure information in the empty spaces. Along with mob data and images. Or any pertinent information for the map. Honestly, I just want to capture the maps. That's what I enjoy. I'll let someone who enjoys putting the pieces together do that.
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Trop on October 19, 2011, 10:46:53 pm
In all SD games chests are sprites that disappear once opened.  I think It's a convenience so the designers didn't have to make a bunch of different item sprites.  Which is stupid since they then go and do it anyway in the inventory.
Sadly there a lot of important NPC's in this game since there a lot of side quests and things like that.  There are other important things too like rare monsters and items that only appear in certain areas under special conditions.

Hmm.  Hey Paco are you doing anything right now?  If we did another collab here this would go real fast.  I could mark some things and you could mark others.  What do you think?
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Paco on October 20, 2011, 05:28:16 am
Positively chests, as long as they are static and not random placement. It confused me that they share the sprite layer. I only like NPCs if they are important. Ones that wander around are pretty pointless. I guess NPCs that are required for story progression? It's still not that important. Mobs can be placed off the maps themselves. Maybe in the empty spaces. Putting them on the map is pointless since they are random anyway.

Edit: I attached a sample image of Batmo Cave. I made it simple. There is a 4 pixel space between images and the borders. You could put treasure information in the empty spaces. Along with mob data and images. Or any pertinent information for the map. Honestly, I just want to capture the maps. That's what I enjoy. I'll let someone who enjoys putting the pieces together do that.

like this:

Golden Sun (https://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/GBA/index.htm#GoldenSun) (on Maps)

or like this?:

- Dragon Quest 3 Remix (https://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/SuperNES/index.htm#DragonQuestIII) (outside the maps)

You said you made 390 Maps for Final Fantasy - Dawn of Souls (FF2), but didnt submit them coz someone already did them? As far i can see the maps on Vgmaps arent complete (very many are still missing).

In all SD games chests are sprites that disappear once opened.  I think It's a convenience so the designers didn't have to make a bunch of different item sprites.  Which is stupid since they then go and do it anyway in the inventory.
Sadly there a lot of important NPC's in this game since there a lot of side quests and things like that.  There are other important things too like rare monsters and items that only appear in certain areas under special conditions.

Hmm.  Hey Paco are you doing anything right now?  If we did another collab here this would go real fast.  I could mark some things and you could mark others.  What do you think?

I was going to do Dragon Warrior 3 in November, but i dont mind doing it. I have to play a bit first and see what i can do and so.
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Troy Lundin on October 20, 2011, 09:53:35 am
Honestly, I really like the way these were done: https://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/SuperNES/FinalFantasyVI-WorldOfBalance-Narshe.png

Also, I can send you the FF2 maps if you want to mark them up. There are some that aren't used in the game. They contain a simple square room with a single tree in it.
Even if they don't get used it was still fun doing it. :D

A question about Sword of Mana: Do you think all the screens could be stuck together as one huge map? or would some of them overlap? From what I have seen so far, it almost seems like a Zelda type map. Multiple screens to make up a huge world.

I am up to 88h on maps. Got a little behind from a dentist appointment yesterday but should get pretty far today. I have decided to do every fourth map (morning) so I can piece together everything.
I understand what you are saying, Trop, about the chests being on the sprite layer now. I just didn't know if they were randomly located. I still haven't been adding them but I can if it would make it easier for you.
I won't add any npcs. I'll leave that to your discretion.
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Trop on October 20, 2011, 10:58:53 am
Yeah I think simple is the way to go.  I'm also working on other projects now and I don't think I could repeat what I did for Mystic Ark with my work load.

As for the world map issue in Sword, yes all the screens together make up one huge world map.  That's a throwback to the first Seiken Densetsu, but in this game they changed things so that it comes out bad looking if you try to join everything up.  It would be better to separate the over world into the sections you have to travel through between towns and dungeons.

So, Paco, what should we add?  Oh! and before I forget, the game is somewhat different depending on which character you play as.
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Troy Lundin on October 20, 2011, 01:54:02 pm
I found out something very interesting about area placement. Most scenes that I have captured have been offset by 8 pixels. This means the screen location at the very least is (8, 8). Some scenes have different locations. Topple, for example, sits at (8, 40). This tells me this is the buffer between the scene and the surrounding scenes. I assume each scene has a simple 8 pixel buffer on it's right and bottom sides. This gives me exact locations to place the scenes together to create a completely accurate whole picture.

I have attached two images as examples. The first is of Topple, where you can see it huge 40 pixel offset. The second is a complete map of the Topple area up to Batmo Cave. I took into account the offsets when placing the scenes. Double-checking pixels confirms this is the way the scenes are made. Btw, both images are taken in the morning.

As a side-note, some scenes don't have a Morning version. It just comes up as a black screen. This happens in Granz Castle, for example.
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: TerraEsperZ on October 20, 2011, 03:03:29 pm
At least now it looks like the various sections do connect well with their neighbours, it's just that there's always a small section missing. The existing maps on the net made it seem as it everything *might* connect well but didn't when actually joining screenshots. Hopefully there's actual map data for the missing parts that you can somehow capture (using Visualboy Advance's Map Browser perhaps?). If the whole game ended up having a huge overworld map that connects almost perfectly everywhere like in the original game, it would be awesome!

I'm also surprised that the various times of day are actually separate maps in memory and not a simple palette swap.
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Troy Lundin on October 20, 2011, 05:25:42 pm
At least now it looks like the various sections do connect well with their neighbours, it's just that there's always a small section missing. The existing maps on the net made it seem as it everything *might* connect well but didn't when actually joining screenshots. Hopefully there's actual map data for the missing parts that you can somehow capture (using Visualboy Advance's Map Browser perhaps?). If the whole game ended up having a huge overworld map that connects almost perfectly everywhere like the original game's would be awesome!

I'm also surprised that the various times of day are actually separate maps in memory and not a simple palette swap.

I am sure that separating the times of day into individual maps was necessary since they are different NPCs and such on the map depending on the time of day. Let's be glad each day of the week doesn't have separate maps. :D

I checked out the Map Viewer theory you had. Turns out it shows an extra 8 pixels on each side. So, that's where the default 8 pixel buffer is at. That would still leave gaps for scenes like Topple. It would still have a 32 pixel gap on the north side. Imo, the 8 pixels isn't going to bother me much. Plus, the space shows where one scene ends and another begins.

What I am saying is those 8 pixels are ones that will never be seen in game even with a Freemove code. I will continue to capture the scenes like I have been. When I give them to you, you can add those pixels if you wish.

Btw, where are the existing maps on net you speak of? I found some here: http://www.fantasyanime.com/mana/swordofmana_maps.htm. They were nice but consistency was missing. Time of day was different on certain maps while others had missing corners. Certainly done using the old-fashioned SS method.

All in all, I just want to finish the scenes. There seems to be a ton of scenes (highest ID so far is 06DF (1695), which is Batmo Cave 4 - Night) so it may take awhile. For the moment, I am working on Morning time maps. I will complete the others after.

As a side note, I created another program that will facilitate the piecing together of scenes. I may just hand you areas like the one I attached in the previous post. Don't use that one, though. It has a mistake.

This turned out to be a bigger job than I expected. But, the way the maps fit together makes up for it. :D
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Trop on October 20, 2011, 08:02:31 pm
I can see how the designers must have created whole areas at once then sliced them up.  And you're right about there being a ton of scenes this game is not small.
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Troy Lundin on October 21, 2011, 01:39:32 am
Oh man, the inefficiencies of this game are astounding.

Take Batmo Cave for example. Different scene ID for each time of day. I capture each scene and notice they look similar. I run them through my image comparison program (compares each pixel) and what do you know? They are exactly the same.

Anyway, I made some changes to my mapping program. I was chugging through scenes at 15 seconds each. I am just changing the scene ID now instead of walking around. This ensures I get every single one.
I am up to 245 captured scenes.

Time for bed. :D
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Maxim on October 21, 2011, 03:24:03 am
Many games impose these sorts of restrictions on the scrolling area to be smaller than the underlying data, because it might be troublesome to have the rendering code run into the edges of the valid data. If the game is built upon sufficiently large meta-tiles, you can infer the missing parts by finding the matching complete meta-tiles for the missing parts; I have a program somewhere that does it automatically.

Once you have a "free movement" hack there is often a second stage where you try to remove these restrictions to be able to see the "full data".

As for the game's inefficiencies - there could simply be another level of indirection, so scene 1 has tiles 1 and palette 1, scene 2 has tiles 1 and palette 2, etc.
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Troy Lundin on October 21, 2011, 10:43:07 am
The Freemove code I use just move my character's position. The game will force it's screen to try and center itself on my character. I have tried manually moving the screen over 8 pixels. Moving it's location from 0008h to 0000h. It just grabs 8 pixels off the right side of the screen and slaps em on the left.  When I enter a menu it resets to 0008h.

i am sure you could fill in some of the gaps with probable matches, but guessing was never my cup of tea. I am perfectly content mapping as much of the game as it allows in-game. Of course, one could always just rip the maps directly from the rom if they wanted the map in it's entirety. If I could do that, by golly, I would. But, I can't, so, this is the next best thing. :D

Another thing, the gaps show where each scene separates from the other, since they are separate (loading is needed) in the game.
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Troy Lundin on October 22, 2011, 01:43:58 am
Up to 425 scenes. Would have had more but I spent all day watching Blizzcon. More tomorrow!

Update (10/22): Like yesterday, most of today was wasted. I am up to 587 scenes captured. I just completed the Airship and have started Miasma Glen.
Another update. 652 scenes captured. Finished Cascade Cave(?), I think. Some of the areas scenes are not in order.

I feel kind of dirty mapping a game I have never played before. Even after I finish mapping, I will still have not played the game. :(
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Troy Lundin on October 23, 2011, 05:58:15 pm
I got bored so I tried to find the real scene ID. Seems the last one is 088B, which is the subsea volcano. No idea if that is the last area in the game, but it gives me a good idea of how many scenes I have left. I am at 847 of a possible 2187!

Why must this game eat at my soul? /sigh

Anyway, I found a couple of images after 088B that aren't scenes. Maybe someone can tell me what they say.
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Trop on October 23, 2011, 07:58:26 pm
The subsea volcano is near the end but the mana sanctuary is the final dungeon.
Yeah this game seems small but like I said, it's not.
Those are the kinds of screens that little cactus gives you when you complete a quest but I don't know what they say.
Me and Paco have started running through the game collecting data so be sure to tell us if you want something specific.
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Troy Lundin on October 23, 2011, 09:12:18 pm
Ok, I didn't realize you started already. There isn't anything specific I want. You will have to add the chests and angel statues. Basically, anything that is on the sprite layer.

Only thing I can think of is major story NPCs, such as NPCs you talk to that would start a boss battle or something. This is your part of the mapping. Be creative.
Also, I hope you are very familiar with the game. The scenes I capture aren't named after the area they are in, they are named by the ID. You can see this in the attachments I post.

They are named as such because of the autosave and autoload feature of my capture program. Anywho, I can upload a few scenes so you can get started. Maybe make a sample for me to look over?
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: FlyingArmor on October 23, 2011, 09:21:35 pm
To translate those screen shots...

The first says:

Sword of Mana
On sale August 29th!
Let's meet in the Gameboy Advance!

And the second:

Sword of Mana
Now officially on sale~
Square Enix

A little strange having advertising for the game you're already playing, don't you think?
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Peardian on October 23, 2011, 09:46:18 pm
It's most likely those messages were intended for demo versions of the game. Very nice find! This is exactly the kind of content I help gather for the Cutting Room Floor wiki.

Also, nice job with the maps. It's amazing how fast you can get stuff done when you have exactly the right tools!
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Troy Lundin on October 23, 2011, 09:56:15 pm
@FlyingArmor: Thanks for the translation. Btw, they look like two different languages. Are they?
@Peardian: Thanks. Also, it has gotten so mindlessly repetitive that I can do it without even paying attention now. Do that with your screenshots! :D

Ok, attaching a zip with Batmo Cave inside. There is a mockup I did of the Morning scenes.

The only thing I will be anal about is scene positioning.
Each scene has (at least) an 8 pixel, magenta border on the top and left sides. An 8 pixel border on the bottom and right sides is assumed. Some images have a greater border of the top or left sides. These borders indicate how far apart each scene should sit from each other. If you look at the mockup, you can tell how I positioned them. This is the correct way they should be positioned for accuracy.

Anything on the sprite layers needs to be added (chests, angel statues?). NPCs can be labeled in the blank areas beside the scenes. Maybe put an image of the NPC with some basic stats if it's able to be killed (health, resistances?) or other information you see fit. Chests can probably be labeled on the scenes themselves unless you feel it won't flow well.

Other than that, just give me the credit, "Captured by Troy Lundin" as well as putting your own credits.

Here is a tip to organizing the scenes.
Any scene whose filename ends with 0, 4, 8 or C is a Morning scene with the next being Noon, then Evening, then Night.

Example:
001C is Morning.
001D is Noon.
001E is Evening.
001F is Night.

Or, you could use times such as 0600, 1200, 1800, 2400. Or whatever. Just make sure you put the right time of day scenes together.

http://www.4shared.com/file/wrC2gOZ0/Sword_of_Mana.html
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: FlyingArmor on October 23, 2011, 10:40:12 pm
No, it's all Japanese. Since Japanese writing mainly uses three different scripts (kanji, hiragana, katakana), there is a lot of freedom in how one can write words and phrases.

The first screen shot happened to use kanji and hiragana while the second used solely hiragana instead. The last line of the second shot where it says "Square Enix" had be baffled for a little bit, since that would normally be written as スクウェア・エニックス using katakana.

Japanese writing can be a little crazy at times, but once you get a handle on it, it can be lots of fun. :D
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Troy Lundin on October 24, 2011, 12:51:46 am
Finished another 300 or so scenes. This brings the total up to 1242. Almost done! In all honesty, I can finish by tomorrow. Hope you guys are ready. :D
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Paco on October 24, 2011, 10:15:10 am
Ok, I didn't realize you started already. There isn't anything specific I want. You will have to add the chests and angel statues. Basically, anything that is on the sprite layer.

no big deal, since after the Raw Maps is done there is not much to add from Sprite Layer.

Only thing I can think of is major story NPCs, such as NPCs you talk to that would start a boss battle or something. This is your part of the mapping. Be creative.
Also, I hope you are very familiar with the game. The scenes I capture aren't named after the area they are in, they are named by the ID. You can see this in the attachments I post.

Leave it to Trop and me. We will discuss it first before we start working on it or else there will be a mess. ^^
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Troy Lundin on October 24, 2011, 10:56:17 am
Question: Is Vinquette Hall(?) a maze or does it have a lot of pointless, similar looking rooms?

I am getting tons of rooms that look the same. Also, most of the rooms only have Noon and Night versions.

Update: Up to 1488 scenes. I found a couple more 'interesting' scenes.

013D is named "Flashback Scene" in-game. NPCs can be walked through and not spoken with.
06A1 is named "Black Screen" in-game. NPCs cannot be spoken with.
06A9 is named "Glass Desert4" in-game. NPCs cannot be spoken with.
08AD is just a Japanese character I would like translated. This is what shows up on every ID past the cactus-plant ones.
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Trop on October 24, 2011, 01:54:32 pm
Vinquette Hall has a lot of similar looking rooms.  You can only enter Vinquette Hall at night, everything you do there takes place there at night.  Those other scenes are cut scenes that take place in areas you can never actually go to.

You want how much stuff added?  OK, that's not a small project at all.  Let me go over this:

First of all are you going to do all areas in all times of day?  Because that would mapping the game out four times.  If not I'll have to make time of day icons that can be placed next to things.

Paco, if you're marking chest contents right on the map then you can do like you did in BoF and mark other items received from people or non chest objects the same way.  Like the grandpa in Topple who gives you the Magic Rope.

I'll place different color highlights around Flag NPC's, Quest Giver NPC's, and whatever other kind of important characters there might be.  I'm not going into detail like in MA though, that would mean linking tons of maps together to explain one quest.  Remember the blue haired kid in Topple that gave you the barbecued newt?  That quest goes on right to one of the final towns.

Goddess statues don't need to be highlighted.  I don't think we have to mark areas where the player has to do something special like cross a pit with the flail or wait until night to see the invisible bridges in the glass desert either.

I'll probably mark rare monsters, along with monsters that drop quest specific items off to the side of the room they appear in but we'll see.

Do you want to make some kind of special thing for those damn weapon specific orbs?  I'm not marking damage zones like the lava in the subsea volcano, or things like the sand conveyor belts in the jadd desert, those should be obvious.

There are switches in the sealed cave, the mine, and other places that make up puzzles just like the west forest in MA.  Do you want to mark those in some way or ignore them?

I thought I'd let you make all your marks and changes before I do any at all so we don't have to do some kind of tricky merging.  What else am I missing here?
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Troy Lundin on October 24, 2011, 09:43:28 pm
Okay, I finished up just the Noon scenes. It seems the game uses Noon as the default time of day if it only uses one time of day for a scene.
Anyway, now you have something to work with. http://www.4shared.com/file/Ceg2bsHt/Sword_of_Mana_-_Maps__Noon_.html (http://www.4shared.com/file/Ceg2bsHt/Sword_of_Mana_-_Maps__Noon_.html)

Also, attached is "Debug Room". Enjoy.
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Paco on October 25, 2011, 03:44:52 am
@Troy Can you also upload the other times-Maps too?

For example: i want to use the Night-Maps for Castle Vinquette.
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Troy Lundin on October 25, 2011, 10:15:09 am
The Night scenes are exactly the same as the Noon scenes for that area. Some scenes only used one time of day. For example: 0881 is outside Vinquette Castle (I think). That is the Noon version of that scene. The other times are non-existant. You can see this is you use the following codes in VBA:

020003B4:0880
020003B4:0882
020003B4:0883

To get the code to work you have to change areas.

Those codes access the Morning, Evening and Night versions of that scene, respectively. Some Vinquette scenes use all four times, most use just the Noon and Night version only. Either way, they are all the same. Also, if you keep an eye on the offset 020003B4, you can see what scene you are on. This may help piecing the areas together.

I always wondered why the different times for that area looked the same. Trop cleared it up when he said you can only enter at night. :D

I can upload all the scenes later. I want to run them through PNGGauntlet first so it isn't a 90MB file. :D
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Troy Lundin on October 25, 2011, 04:53:38 pm
Here is the full pack of scenes.

Scenes that end with:
0, 4, 8, C are Morning.
1, 5, 9, D are Noon.
2, 6, A, E are evening.
3, 7, B, F are Night.

Scenes that are entirely Magenta haven't been captured yet. These should just be some Morning and Evening scenes.
Scenes that are mostly Magenta but have a rectangle of black don't exist in the game. They just came up as a black screen.

http://www.4shared.com/file/CV6yGLyl/Sword_of_Mana_-_Scenes__Full_.html
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Trop on October 25, 2011, 07:48:27 pm
I'm thinking NPC's will be listed in a make shift legend with small amounts of info about each.  Something like what Paco's doing with the monsters.
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Paco on October 26, 2011, 10:19:42 am
@Troy Do mind that the Maps are not finished yet, but which do you like more? A or B?
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Troy Lundin on October 26, 2011, 01:29:34 pm
Is there a unique (or semi-unique) icon for each item in the game? If so, you could just place the icon above each chest and then have a small key somewhere that shows the name of each icon.

The issue with the first one (item names outside the scenes) is that it may become impossible to accomplish on larger maps without a lot of empty space. The desert maybe?
The issue with the second one (item names inside the scenes) may arise if there happens to be chests next to each other. Or close enough that they may overlap.

Also, make sure you are spacing the scenes the correct distance apart. I explained in more detail a few posts back. Basically, it's way they are spaced in the game. If they aren't spaced this way, some of the scenes may overlap. I have a program that can help a lot with spacing. Basically, it allows you to move the scenes 8 pixels at a time so you can line them up easier. I can put it up if you wish to use it.

I love the NPC info and the exit signs. The credit box is a bit large.
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Paco on October 26, 2011, 02:01:00 pm
Is there a unique (or semi-unique) icon for each item in the game? If so, you could just place the icon above each chest and then have a small key somewhere that shows the name of each icon.

I didnt play very far yet to say for sure, but most Items-Icons are unique except for Raw Material where there is many different Name for the same Icon.

I love the NPC info and the exit signs. The credit box is a bit large.

There is no NPC Info yet (well, there are no NPC in Batmo Cave) just Monster Info. really? then i will make it smaller, but that have time until the Project is done.
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Troy Lundin on October 26, 2011, 04:43:48 pm
I meant NPC as in Non-player character. I consider monsters non-playable. Would be cool if they were playable, though. :D
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Trop on October 26, 2011, 06:06:41 pm
If only all SD games were like Legend of Mana.  My NPC listings will mimic Paco's monster listings with things like quests or items they give you.  The story advancing elements (Flags) you wanted will also be there.
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Paco on October 27, 2011, 02:44:54 am
I meant NPC as in Non-player character. I consider monsters non-playable. Would be cool if they were playable, though. :D

For me NPC are character which you talk to and they dont attack you. All other are Monster or enemies.

But lets us stop that and continue with the Game.

and here is C. What do you think? Later there may be 2 item with different name but use the same Icon, but we will see about that then.
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Trop on October 27, 2011, 10:28:38 am
I Like version C.
I'm torn about what to do with NPC sprites.  I'm going to display NPC stats in their own box but I'm not sure I should put their sprites on the map.  If I only put important NPC's on things might look funny since that's not what you see in the game.  If I put all NPC's on important ones would need highlights to tell them apart form the useless ones.  Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Troy Lundin on October 27, 2011, 11:05:58 am
I like C as well. Keep up the good work guys. :D

By the way, are there any questions you guys have about the scenes I provided?
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Peardian on October 27, 2011, 12:41:01 pm
I have a question regarding the unused scenes. Would you want to help us document the stuff you've found in the game for The Cutting Room Floor wiki? Those images, debug room, and unused scenes are exactly the kind of stuff TCRF covers. If you're interested, I'll PM you the link. (Don't want any spambots to get a hold of it!)


The map looks good, aside from the oversized credits box.
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Troy Lundin on October 27, 2011, 03:13:06 pm
I have a question regarding the unused scenes. Would you want to help us document the stuff you've found in the game for The Cutting Room Floor wiki? Those images, debug room, and unused scenes are exactly the kind of stuff TCRF covers. If you're interested, I'll PM you the link. (Don't want any spambots to get a hold of it!)


The map looks good, aside from the oversized credits box.

Ok, send me the link.
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Trop on October 27, 2011, 09:26:48 pm
Just sent the first real prototype to Paco so the first complete map isn't far off.
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Trop on November 13, 2011, 11:26:21 am
Troy, problem.  We can't finish the abandoned mine.  I left without realizing I wouldn't be able to return and the girl can't get in at all.  Since you're the one with the walk through walls code you'll have to go back in to get the chests and statues.
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Trop on November 13, 2011, 04:44:36 pm
Nevermind.  Paco found some saves.
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Troy Lundin on November 15, 2011, 02:35:17 am
Here is the Freemove code if you need it:
Code: [Select]
74000130 03DD
E2001660 FFFE
74000130 03ED
E2001660 0002
74000130 037D
E2001662 FFFE
74000130 037D
E2001662 0002
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Trop on December 20, 2011, 08:38:13 am
So Paco tells me he's made his final modifications.  This was on hell of a project, I can't wait to see it all up.
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Troy Lundin on December 20, 2011, 08:22:06 pm
Paco sent me a sneak-peek of the maps today. I must say I am amazed. I thought I put a lot of work in capturing the scenes but I see that was just a drop in the bucket. I had never played the game before and walking around with sprites disabled really left me in the dark. The amount of work put into these map is truly grand. I had imagined simply chest contents but you two went way beyond that. I have never seen maps so detailed. It was truly an honor to work with you guys.


As an aside, I really want to capture another game, but I think it would be better to capture a game that someone actually want to populate. I want to push my capturing program to it's limits so I can improve it. If you have a game you want to map I can make it easier for you. :D
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Trop on December 21, 2011, 11:33:45 am
That wasn't a sneak peek, you're supposed to approve them and send them to Jon, or tell Paco you approve so he can send them to Jon, or make more modifications yourself then send them in, ect, ect.  Yes it turned out to be much more of a project then I anticipated.  Still it was fun.  If you want to test your program more someone here wanted Magical Vacation, and I never got around to making a walk through walls code for it.  They wanted Magical Starsign too but I can't do DS at all.
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: JonLeung on December 25, 2011, 09:59:47 pm
The maps have been up (https://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/GBA/index.htm#SwordOfMana) since yesterday.  I must say, these are incredible.  RPGs often look great on their own but just all the information you've put on each map - wow!  Awesome teamwork, guys!  I would love to see more of this kind of work.

How about Super NES RPGs?  (I was actually going to request Secret Of Mana (https://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/SuperNES/index.htm#SecretOfMana) again, but before I could ask, I got the maps right away from Tropicon (like a Christmas present!), and not to downplay how awesome they are, but I'm wondering if similar labeling can be done on these maps.)
Title: Re: Sword of Mana (GBA)
Post by: Trop on December 25, 2011, 10:41:06 pm
About the SoM maps, the Test of Courage link goes to Tasnica.  Also about the SoM maps, it was always my intention to go back and mark them up, only I'd add way more then what's on the Sword of Mana maps.  The Sword of Mana maps were meant to be a light project that got bigger then any of us expected it to.  If I went back and marked the SoM maps I'd add everything from full flag guides to each individual enemy location.  Which is why I've always put it off, I'd take half a year at least.