Author Topic: RE: Sonic CD (Sega CD)  (Read 71353 times)

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Offline TerraEsperZ

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RE: Sonic CD (Sega CD)
« on: March 04, 2007, 10:36:25 PM »
Okay, this isn't really a project I'm taking on. It's more of a side-project if anything. You see, I'm tired of seeing a series as popular as the Genesis Sonic games being without any maps, or at least well-made maps.



So in a single day, using only the game's Debug Mode, I decided to put this together. Now, I'm afraid I'll have to disappoint you for the time being by only posting a crippled version of it. Sonic is just too popular to risk seeing this being stolen by others, so I won't submit any finished versions unless I've either done the whole game or done a significant portion of it. Although, doing a finished map as nice-looking as this from start to finish in a single day *is* a nice incentive to continue. Debug Mode is certainly much easier than playing, capturing and guessing...



*cue in JonLeung's annoyed comments about me starting too much stuff and neglecting long-delayed maps*



User posted image



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me
Current project that are on hold because job burnout :
-Drill Dozer (GBA)
-Sonic 3D Blast (Genesis)
-Naya's Quest (PC)

Offline Grizzly

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Sonic CD (Sega CD)
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2007, 03:50:11 AM »
Wow, that's great. And although the map still is not at full size it already looks better than what I have seen from Sonic 2 maps. Debug mode is a nice thing. I used something like that for Secret Of Evermore. It only was a "walking through walls" code but because it was an RPG, it was the same because the player didn't fall back or anything like that. And it really made mapping much easier. Otherwise I could not have made that project in so few months.

Too bad that not all games have modes like this. Or at least the codes for debug mode aren't available on the net.

Offline JonLeung

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RE: Sonic CD (Sega CD)
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2007, 07:40:17 AM »
I HEART CHEMICAL PLANT ZONE!!11!1111!!ONE!

Offline TerraEsperZ

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RE: Sonic CD (Sega CD)
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2007, 07:57:12 AM »
I'll probably fade the Chemical Plant Zone background by something like 50% like I did for the Secret Base map in Sonic Advance because otherwise the contrast between it and the level proper isn't obvious at all.



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me
Current project that are on hold because job burnout :
-Drill Dozer (GBA)
-Sonic 3D Blast (Genesis)
-Naya's Quest (PC)

Offline JonLeung

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RE: Sonic CD (Sega CD)
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2007, 08:34:41 AM »
I, too, am surprised at the lack of Sonic game maps.



Actually, the lack of key games in a few major series surprise me.  Of the Zelda games, A Link To The Past is generally considered the best of the 2D ones and we only have one dungeon mapped out for the Super NES one (and the GBA one is also far from complete).  Of the Mario games, it took a combined effort in a project to get Super Mario Bros. 3, which I was surprised wasn't mapped at the time, and the original Super Mario Bros. is still incomplete!



But if Sonic was/is a major video game character, you'd think we'd have a whole Sonic game mapped by now, and yet we don't.  I don't think anything is even close.  It's like the whole series is ignored.  I know there's a clear Nintendo skew here, but you'd think that we'd've gotten a complete Sonic game before many of the other games here on the site, Genesis or otherwise.



Perhaps this so-called "Blast Processing" is intimidating would-be mappers?



I kid.



And even if there was such a thing, I don't think it'd be something we couldn't overcome, so long as the game is in 2D.

Offline marioman

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RE: Sonic CD (Sega CD)
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2007, 03:31:25 PM »
The delay may be due to the length of the games.  Most of the games that Jon mentioned either have a lot of maps or very large maps.



I would imagine that DarkWolf could whip up some kind of automated something-or-other that would just crank those maps out for you.  You may want to talk to him.

Offline TerraEsperZ

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RE: Sonic CD (Sega CD)
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2007, 03:41:28 PM »
Actually... unless DarkWolf decides to do it on his own, I'd actually prefer to try my hand at it manually. How else could I claim any merit for the maps ;) ? But anyway, I don't believe a program could output a map exactly the way I'd want it anyway, and I'd need to go back to make things to my liking, like putting moving platforms and obstacles in a certain way. Plus, adding boss sprites and such.



But seriously, I can understand why the Genesis Sonic games haven't been mapped yet. The levels are huge with lots of animation, parallax scrolling backgrounds and you absolutely need to be able to disable layers to do it right. And honestly, without the Debug Mode, it would be way too hard to capture accurately all those rings and areas that are so far from the main level that it would be impossible to determine the distance between them accurately.



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me
Current project that are on hold because job burnout :
-Drill Dozer (GBA)
-Sonic 3D Blast (Genesis)
-Naya's Quest (PC)

Offline JonLeung

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RE: Sonic CD (Sega CD)
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2007, 05:44:15 PM »
Hmmm, you're probably right, Terra, those last few points do make things difficult, even for seasoned mappers.



I'd like to see how much Sonic The Hedgehog 2 was tweaked when played attached to Sonic & Knuckles - this would be done by comparing full maps of Sonic 2, both with and without the Sonic & Knuckles "Lock-On" cartridge.  While I understood that the somewhat incomplete Sonic 3 was rectified with Sonic & Knuckles, I didn't think they had the foresight to do anything with Sonic 2, not considering that Sonic & Knuckles was "smart" enough to not only take level data but also modify it.



I remember a friend's birthday party (he was a Sonic fan) a week after the release of Sonic & Knuckles and he was demonstrating it with Sonic 2.  I made the assumption that Knuckles was merely added to the game, and that there was no point to climb around since the original game never intended for anyone to do that.  I kind of got egg on my face when someone was climbing around in Chemical Plant Zone and found a power-up TV thing on top of a wall that most likely could not have been there before.  But of course I know that it's a lot to ask for more Sonic maps.  I would lament about Sonic 3D Blast more, otherwise.



(While I like Knuckles, I always thought it was a little awkward to have him here...with Sonic games you were always running speedily past things, and his gliding was not as fun or as fast or as exciting as running, and climbing was slow too.)



On a side note, I hadn't noticed that Tails's name of "Miles Prower" was a play on "miles per hour" until relatively recently.  :P



Anyway, back on topic, I didn't play much of the oldschool Sonic games, but of them I played 2 the most, so I'm looking forward to these maps for nostalgia's sake.



Think you can find a way to map the half-pipe bonus areas?  o_0

Offline TerraEsperZ

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RE: Sonic CD (Sega CD)
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2007, 06:09:32 PM »
There's no way to make a map of the bonus stages without making some sort of schematics to compensate for all the twists and turns the pipe takes. At least, it's way beyond my abilities.



And if I ever get to it, I'll map Sonic 3 & Knuckles instead of both games separately, especially since they were meant to work together.



I'm done with the Chemical Plant background and starting the main level. I'm planning to map the first act of every zones and then move to second and third. The variety will help me retain interest.



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me
Current project that are on hold because job burnout :
-Drill Dozer (GBA)
-Sonic 3D Blast (Genesis)
-Naya's Quest (PC)

Offline DarkWolf

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RE: Sonic CD (Sega CD)
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2007, 08:13:11 PM »
You don't need a script for Sonic since debug mode makes it easy.  Also, I'm thinking about doing a Sonic game, but not one for Genesis.  Hmmm, what could it be?  You'll just have to wait and see.

Offline JonLeung

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RE: Sonic CD (Sega CD)
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2007, 08:28:14 PM »
Knowing Darkwolf's penchant for somewhat obscure games, it's probably that one arcade game.

Offline marioman

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RE: Sonic CD (Sega CD)
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2007, 06:10:13 AM »
There are only a few possibilities:  Game Gear, Arcade or Neo Geo.  Which one will it be?

Offline TerraEsperZ

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RE: Sonic CD (Sega CD)
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2007, 08:07:28 AM »
The first Sega Master game (a better version of the Game Gear one) has already been mapped completely. You can see the results at Maxim's World of Stuff - SMS/Meka stuff



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me
Current project that are on hold because job burnout :
-Drill Dozer (GBA)
-Sonic 3D Blast (Genesis)
-Naya's Quest (PC)

Offline Grizzly

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RE: Sonic CD (Sega CD)
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2007, 05:23:18 PM »
Thanks for the link, Terra. There are some more Master System games mapped on the page.

Offline TerraEsperZ

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RE: Sonic CD (Sega CD)
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2007, 02:24:47 PM »
Before continuing Chemical Plant Zone, I'm going to try to map Green Hill Zone Act 1 (Sonic The Hedgehog) and Palmtree Panic Act 1 - Present(Sonic CD). I'm curious to see the difficulty in mapping zones from those three games.



Seeing good maps of Sonic CD would be a dream come true, especially seeing every possible version of each one (Past, Present, Good & Bad Future). Plus, even though the stages aren't very fun to play, I really like the graphics.



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me
Current project that are on hold because job burnout :
-Drill Dozer (GBA)
-Sonic 3D Blast (Genesis)
-Naya's Quest (PC)