Author Topic: Shovel Knight (PC)  (Read 33356 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline TerraEsperZ

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2326
Shovel Knight (PC)
« on: July 29, 2014, 08:20:55 pm »
I'm afraid I'm likely not going to work further on this project, if only because separating the layers and the sprites has been a *massive* pain. We're talking close to a dozen hours for two (more like one and a half) stages. But I at least managed to get two maps out of it, so everybody wins?

These reveal all the secrets but I'll also be submitting versions with them hidden to the site.

Plains (of passage):


Village:
« Last Edit: February 05, 2017, 08:33:59 pm by TerraEsperZ »
Current project:
Mega Man: Powered Up (PSP)

Offline JonLeung

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3685
Re: Shovel Knight (PC)
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2014, 12:10:29 pm »
Awesome!  But that's really all you're going to do?  :/

I've finished this game a while ago but I was watching my brother play a bit last night, he only just started.  And early on there's that sort of bonus stage (the one where you use the phasing to get past the spikes) and I recall it uses the same tileset as the Plains Of Passage which you've already mapped, so shouldn't that be doable too?

And then the Troupple King area, well, that's just a single screen...

And the final area has a lot of darkness, so that should be easy too...

:P

Offline TerraEsperZ

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2326
Re: Shovel Knight (PC)
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2014, 02:33:59 pm »
Oh, I'm not definitely saying I won't do more, but I don't want to create expectations given my spotty track record *and* how fickle this game can be in certain aspects. For example, the game's actual resolution of 400 x 240 pixels is not always respected (some sprites on the map tended to be slightly distorted) and I have no idea if that might happen later in the game.

Some stages would definitely be easier like those you mentioned or the Hall of Champions where scrolling is not a problem. Others might be much harder depending on the ease of separating the background layers. All I'm saying is, let's wait and see.
Current project:
Mega Man: Powered Up (PSP)

Offline vorpal86

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 208
Re: Shovel Knight (PC)
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2014, 06:23:32 pm »
Well at least the first level and town are done. Perhaps there is too much paralax going on too. Unlike SNES you can't enable/disable layers at will. That would help a lot.

This game is cool. I just happened upon it today looking at this map. Hopefully you'll update more if perhaps finding a different approach to it. Maybe not. At any rate, not too bad.

Offline Cyartog959

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 80
Re: Shovel Knight (PC)
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2024, 07:53:23 pm »
Hey, TerraEsperZ, I couldn't help but notice that your part in mapping Shovel Knight isn't yet done. I just took a brief stop to the PC's map atlas, and saw that game's map collection's been long untouched.

I know you were busy, but I thought I'd like to bring this to your attention, if you're around.

Hope you can get back to mapping out the rest of the game... because a lot has changed since you last worked on it, because of the updates over the years, and, boy, there's plenty to go.

Of course, I don't want to force you or anything, given that you weren't able to continue because of your struggles with separating the background layers, but other mappers edited them out to leave only the foreground.

Whatever you decide is up to you.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2024, 07:57:28 pm by Cyartog959 »

Offline TerraEsperZ

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2326
Re: Shovel Knight (PC)
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2024, 12:05:29 am »
Sorry Cyartog959 but I definitely gave up on mapping the rest of the main game (Shovel of Hope), not to even mention the other campaigns.

Like many (most?) modern games featuring pixel graphics, the graphics don't actually conform to an exact pixel grid, which makes obtaining pure 1:1 graphics really taxing. Add to that the numerous, often partially obscured backgrounds to capture and isolate (which are usually half the reason the maps look as good as they do and thus necesary) and the fact I have way less free time to map nowadays...

Frankly, I'd much rather spend my effort on mapping games that actually excite me from a technical point of view and even those I'll sometimes give up if they require so much work that a single map takes weeks to do. It's not like I'm lacking in games I want to map (or finish mapping someday) anyway.

Ever since you joined the forum, you've been asking for, frankly, a rather ludicrous amount of maps to be done. I admire the passion and interest but it's clear you have little idea on just how much work they can take. The time and effort required are precisely why the majority of us don't take requests on the Requests board, preferring to concentrate on our respective projects. Sometimes a request might pique someone's interest because of novelty but there's really no guarantee.

I second FlyingArmor's suggestion from another thread: why not give it a try yourself?
No one here's a magician (well, aside from VGCartography, probably ;)) and what each of us has achieved did so after years of practice. I've been at it for nearly 25 years and I'm still learning new tools and techniques, trying to add my own little touches, etc.

You might find it fun, or even challenging! You might even find a niche of your own or a particular style!
Current project:
Mega Man: Powered Up (PSP)

Offline Cyartog959

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 80
Re: Shovel Knight (PC)
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2024, 01:27:53 am »
Sorry Cyartog959 but I definitely gave up on mapping the rest of the main game (Shovel of Hope), not to even mention the other campaigns.

Like many (most?) modern games featuring pixel graphics, the graphics don't actually conform to an exact pixel grid, which makes obtaining pure 1:1 graphics really taxing. Add to that the numerous, often partially obscured backgrounds to capture and isolate (which are usually half the reason the maps look as good as they do and thus necesary) and the fact I have way less free time to map nowadays...

Frankly, I'd much rather spend my effort on mapping games that actually excite me from a technical point of view and even those I'll sometimes give up if they require so much work that a single map takes weeks to do. It's not like I'm lacking in games I want to map (or finish mapping someday) anyway.

Ever since you joined the forum, you've been asking for, frankly, a rather ludicrous amount of maps to be done. I admire the passion and interest but it's clear you have little idea on just how much work they can take. The time and effort required are precisely why the majority of us don't take requests on the Requests board, preferring to concentrate on our respective projects. Sometimes a request might pique someone's interest because of novelty but there's really no guarantee.

I second FlyingArmor's suggestion from another thread: why not give it a try yourself?
No one here's a magician (well, aside from VGCartography, probably ;)) and what each of us has achieved did so after years of practice. I've been at it for nearly 25 years and I'm still learning new tools and techniques, trying to add my own little touches, etc.

You might find it fun, or even challenging! You might even find a niche of your own or a particular style!

OK. I understand. Valid points, all. Fine, indeed.

I don't want to overload anyone's schedules with the map requests I've posted so far. I thought that being part of the community, I was trying to cover some ground, just to give the mappers something to do. Its not like I'm asking for all that to be done at once, which I'm not.

And, yes, the work on mapping games can be oftentimes taxing, given on how much maps each game has, considering their counting, but, for mappers, the efforts are worthwhile.

I was trying to fill a bit of boredom time while JonLeung's tending to his own matters elsewhere and others around the community doing their own. Don't get me wrong. I just love seeing mappers tackling games, popular or otherwise.

Offline JonLeung

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3685
Re: Shovel Knight (PC)
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2024, 10:10:13 am »
I second FlyingArmor's suggestion from another thread: why not give it a try yourself?

You might find it fun, or even challenging! You might even find a niche of your own or a particular style!

And, yes, the work on mapping games can be oftentimes taxing, given on how much maps each game has, considering their counting, but, for mappers, the efforts are worthwhile.

Cyartog, I will start off by saying that it's good of you to be involved in the forums.  But I question if you actually know how much work making a map is.

In your request topic, you've been asking for a lot of DSiWare/3DS/WiiWare games.  There's a reason those atlas pages on VGMaps don't have very many maps right now.  And besides the technical level required, most of those requested games are obscure games, or licensed games that, frankly, many people aren't that interested in.

You have said things like "needing to cover these games" and "really need to acknowledge these".  There's like a million games out there, who determines what needs to be mapped?  We all have different opinions.

Yes, I have my own huge requests topic, I won't deny that.  But I generally keep the requests reasonable (on a technical level, at least), and you can see that I thank people who do fulfill them, as some show of gratitude in principle, even though I also believe my mere words of praise are not likely the sole reason anyone maps the games that I would like to see.  People have to be interested enough to begin with.  Maybe think of requests as "suggestions", not "demands".  And even then, suggestions have a low success rate.

When you say stuff like "for mappers, the efforts are worthwhile", that comes off as a bit much.  I'm sure if a mapper was interested enough in a game to map it to begin with, and they're happy with the final result because it's aesthetically pleasing and put together well, and informative and useful, or it fulfills a checklist of their own of what they think is worth doing, then yes.  But when you're justifying your requests by saying "the efforts are worthwhile", I don't think that is very convincing, and sounds more than a little entitled, because I don't think you even know what that effort even looks like.

If I may third the suggestion put forth by FlyingArmor, which was seconded by TerraEsperZ, why not make a map yourself?  Just to see what it's like.

So here's my request for you.  Why not something like a single stage from Puss N Boots: Pero's Great Adventure on the NES?  Most stages are very linear, it's just "go right" without vertical motion.  Doesn't look like there's parallax layers.  So all you have to do is, take a screenshot, move right a bit, take another screenshot, move right some more, and repeat.  Then stitch the images together in an image program.  That's literally the simplest method for mapping.  If you don't like Puss In Boots, I'm sure there are many other simple NES games that can be mapped similarly.

Now, mapping that or anything similar isn't a prerequisite to requesting more stuff or anything.  You're not necessarily going to earn points with anyone else for doing it.  You still can request stuff even if you don't take my suggestion, I just wanted you to understand, at least in small part, the effort required.  And that's just for something basic!  Now imagine that difficulty multiplied by a lot for stuff like some of the DS/3DS games you've requested.

If nothing else, I feel like you'll be setting yourself up for disappointment if you ask for too much that is too complex.  You honestly would have better luck with these if you learned to map them yourself, then you can show the world the games that you think are worth knowing.  It might take years to get all these mapped, but it's far more likely if you were to do it yourself than to expect others to do it.

Does that make sense?  Is that fair for me to say?

Offline Cyartog959

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 80
Re: Shovel Knight (PC)
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2024, 11:20:30 am »
OK. I got a bit overambitious on this. I may need to reflect a bit.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2024, 12:03:32 pm by Cyartog959 »