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Author Topic: Current Status of Game Atlases on VGMaps  (Read 1202 times)
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FlyingArmor
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« on: February 11, 2019, 10:47:35 PM »

I decided to make this topic in response to a comment in another thread asking about the how complete the NES and SNES Atlases on this site are. So I took upon myself to do the detective work and come up with an answer.

So far, I've only taken the time to compile statistics on the games released in North America, since adding in all the Japanese and European titles as well would be quite the formidable task to take up all at once. I'll be sure to update this post with stats for the games released in Europe and Japan once I have those numbers ready.

Before I continue, I'll point out that I took any game compilations off my lists if they were previously released separately (such as Super Mario Bros/Duck Hunt) as they are redundant. As far as I know, I found four game compilations on the NES, so those out of the way will reduce the total number of NES games from 677 to 673. With my list at the moment, I seem to have an extra game on it, but have no idea which one it is, so as of now, my total is 674. My SNES list comprises 720 games, so I seem to be missing one if I want to get it up to 721. I don't know how many compilation cartridges there are on the SNES, but the one obvious one I can think of now, Super Mario All-Stars + Super Mario World, wasn't present on the list on Wikipedia. Perhaps there was only one so that might explain why I'm off by one?

By the way, I compiled my lists from the respective Wikipedia articles, and I found errors with the release dates of MANY games. I found at least ten Japanese exclusive games purporting to be released only in America in the SNES article, so that probably explains the discrepancies I currently have.

For the NES, out of 674 games, there is coverage of 281 games (41.69%). Of those, 262 are (as far as I can tell) mapped completely (38.87%), and 19 are partially complete (2.82%).

For the SNES, out of 720 games, there is coverage of 191 games (26.53%). Of those, 152 are (as far as I can tell) mapped completely (21.11%), and 39 are partially complete (5.42%).

So Jon is completely right in saying we're nowhere near having very complete atlases for these two consoles despite being the most popular. And keep in mind this is just for the North American releases! While I haven't taken the time to count up the Japanese or European releases yet, I'm sure those are in a similar if not worse position. According to the SNES game list on Wikipedia, there are 976 exclusive games for Japan alone! I know I've helped to map some of those Japanese exclusives, but there's still TONS left to go. I wouldn't be surprised to find that less than 10% have any maps at all let alone complete sets here on VGMaps.

But anyway, it's certainly interesting to see how much has been done so far and how much there is still left to do!
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JonLeung
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« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2019, 10:08:40 PM »

Let's see if I can help clear up the numbers you have, though it's not going to affect it by much, percentage-wise.

My count for official North American NES releases is 677, like the number you have.

There are five compilations of individually-released games.  These should be:
Donkey Kong Classics which includes Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr. (is this the extra game that you think you have?)
Sesame Street ABC & 123
Super Mario Bros. / Duck Hunt
Super Mario Bros. / Duck Hunt / World Class Track Meet
Super Spike V'Ball / Nintendo World Cup

Not to be confused with compilations of games that were never released on their own, that is, Back To The Future: Part II & III and Short Order / Eggsplode!  (And if you've seen Super Mario Bros. / Tetris / Nintendo World Cup, that's a European release, not a North American one.)

For curiosity's sake if anyone else wants to know what the count includes, be aware of these other tricky ones:
-There are two Indiana Jones And The Last Crusades.  One is by Taito and one is by Ubi Soft, and they are vastly different games.  Doesn't help much that the box art is of the exact same photo still from the movie where Indiana Jones is pointing a gun while riding a horse, but is zoomed in closer on the Taito one.
-There are two official Pac-Mans.  I recall reading that there actually is a faint colour difference between the two.  One is published by Namco and one is by Tengen.  "But Jon," you may say, "Tengen games don't count."  That's actually not quite correct.  There are three Tengen games released in both the official standard cartridge but also in the black, upside-down label Tengen style.  Aside from Pac-Man, the other two are Gauntlet and R.B.I. Baseball, so these officially count.  Do not confuse the Pac-Man situation with Tetris, where there is a Nintendo release and a Tengen release, since the Tengen one never got Nintendo's blessing (though some people prefer the Tengen version because it actually has a two-payer mode).
-I'm counting Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!! and Punch-Out!! as separate games.
-I'm counting World Class Track Meet and the incredibly rare Stadium Events as separate games.
-There are numerous variants of boxes/covers, many of them subtle, like the "Bros." on the cover for Super Mario Bros. 3 being moved from the left to more to the right, though these are subtle and unannounced changes.  Some rereleases are distinct, like with The Legend Of Zelda, but the biggest change is Metroid, where the pixel art is entirely replaced by an image of Samus (actually from Metroid II, considering the orange Varia Suit with the bulky shoulder pads).  While a collector of actual cartridges might like all variants, this is still just one game.

My count for official North America Super NES releases is 718, but this number can be 720 or 721, if we're really talking about NTSC releases for the "Americas".

Again, there are some compilations.
Super Mario All-Stars + Super Mario World is quite the package, too bad it didn't come in an official box since it was a pack-in.  Super Mario All-Stars is already a compilation, but of remade NES games, just like Ninja Gaiden Trilogy (though the sound got worse), and in a way, Tetris & Dr. Mario, though that one also has a "Mixed Mode" which mashes them together too, so it's more than a strict rerelease compilation.
Exertainment Mountain Bike Rally / Speed Racer - these are two games for the Exertainment exercise bike peripheral, which came separate but also together.  These three carts are quite rare, along with Cannondale Cup - of which Mountain Bike Rally is a reskin of, if I'm not mistaken.  Confusing enough?  (Is this a compilation you didn't count?)

Speaking of reskins,
Chavez is a reskin of Riddick Bowe Boxing, and
Chavez II is a reskin of Boxing Legends Of The Ring.  Sometimes the Chavez games aren't counted not just because they are reskins, but because they are sold to a limited market, supposedly the southwest US and Mexico.  That brings us to 720 if you count them (I personally would).
Super Copa is a reskin of Tony Meola's Sidekicks Soccer and was only released in Brazil and perhaps elsewhere in Latin America.  Counting this brings this to 721 (but when I made a poster of all the game covers, which you can see in some of my YouTube videos, I deliberately left this one out, because 720 is a much easier number to work with).

(I've sometimes pointed out the incredible coincidence that the number of Super NES games equal the number of Pokémon up to the sixth generation.  It seems there's 718 at first, but then when you look further and find these three games from down south or the three mythical Pokémon, the actual number is 721.  Furthering the coincidence, the Super NES added X and Y face buttons, and the Pokémon sixth generation is, you guessed it - Pokémon X & Y.)

Thank you for working out the math, FlyingArmor!  Wow!  It's certainly interesting, and cool to have my assumptions mathematically confirmed.  Seeing that we're a tiny bit less than 2/5ths of the way through the NES and a tiny bit more than 1/5th of the way through the Super NES (if we're only counting the complete games) - or an average of a (kind-of-neat) 29.99% or just under 3/10ths done.  Counting partially complete games adds a bit, but not a whole lot since the number of complete games is multiple times more than the incomplete (which surprised me for some reason - I mean, I know we have more complete games than incomplete games, just didn't think it was multiple times more).
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FlyingArmor
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« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2019, 11:55:30 PM »

I did find I still had Donkey Kong Classics in my NES list, so that's been removed. However, with the five compilation games out of the way, that still leaves me with 673, so I still have one extra game somewhere.

Ah! I didn't know about the Exertainment Mountain Bike Rally and Speed Racer compilation. Thanks for pointing that out!

The reskins you spoke of were grouped together with the respective games they originated from in the Wikipedia article. After viewing some videos comparing the pairs, I'd say they all warrant separate entries. So I suppose my official count should therefore be 719 if I take the two compilation cartridges out of the picture. After I made my initial post, I found a few more Japanese exclusive games, so I'm now down to 719. I guess I'm okay now with my count then? I still haven't taken the time to double check my list with non-Wikipedia sources, so I might still find discrepancies, but it's close enough regardless.

Hey, it's no problem! It has certainly opened my eyes to just how many games there really are for these consoles, even when my current lists are limited to just North America. It's one thing to hear the numbers, but totally another to see each and every title one by one. If getting these lists into shape was this much of a headache, I wonder how bad it'll be when I get to the Japanese side of things? TT__TT;;;

Also, going through this ordeal made me think of posting these completion lists up here on the forums (akin to the various Atlas posts), so mappers can see the vast array of games that haven't been touched yet. I have to wonder if the forum software can handle posts being 1000+ lines long? Cheesy
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Will
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« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2019, 07:41:22 AM »

I did a similar compilation for NES and SNES games, which sorts out the NES, Famicom, Family Computer Disk System, SNES and Super Famicom systems.

You can view it at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eeBBvDaGgwW6NO5RmXI7EbedxPsbyeoBV9U-LOMfboA/edit?usp=sharing
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JonLeung
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« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2019, 09:25:04 AM »

Also, going through this ordeal made me think of posting these completion lists up here on the forums (akin to the various Atlas posts), so mappers can see the vast array of games that haven't been touched yet. I have to wonder if the forum software can handle posts being 1000+ lines long? Cheesy

One thing I've thought about doing (and now I wonder if I will regret doing so if I don't get around to it) is going through the Atlases with a fine-toothed comb.  The NES and Super NES could use a check-over to see if the games are properly indicated as unlicensed, and (E) for European ones, and for the Japanese ones, to come up with a consistent way of presenting the title (there are often two ways to spell anything in Japanese, and do I prioritize the English translated title, and what if it doesn't officially have an English title but you know what it obviously would have to be (like Kyatto Ninden Teyandee (J) on the Famicom, which should obviously be Samurai Pizza Cats (J))?  Do I just put up title images for every region for every game?  There's stuff like Blaster Master which has the exact same gameplay as Meta Fight (J) despite having different stories.  (Maybe that doesn't have anything to do with anything here though.)  Lots to consider.

Hard to say if multiple request lists work.  But at the very least, they might remind people of games that are likely to be mapped anyway.  Recreating the NES Game Atlas and the library of the NES Classic Edition were easy, but the Super NES versions of both of those took longer, the Super NES Classic isn't even done.  Same with my Nintendo Power magazine cover games topic.  The Game Boy "Game Atlas" recreation topic is stagnant despite having only Super Mario Bros. Deluxe remaining...

What if there is a way to put up the lists of official games, and have them somehow votable?  Like people could click checkboxes or somehow indicate ones they'd like to see.  Logistically this could be tricky - can there be multiple votes per person, can the same person put multiple votes on the same game, how often can people change their votes, etc.  It would be interesting to see what people want to see most.

Ultimately, you'd have to have mappers interested in the games.  Might have to have a disclaimer that the votes are for informational purposes only and that there's no guarantee of those maps being made, especially if the top games are technically unfeasible.  But if a mapper is looking for something to do, such a poll could be very helpful.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 09:30:57 AM by JonLeung » Logged
FlyingArmor
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« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2019, 03:36:40 PM »

I did a similar compilation for NES and SNES games, which sorts out the NES, Famicom, Family Computer Disk System, SNES and Super Famicom systems.

That's cool that you have done much the same thing, Will. However, I did notice a number of my own map sets say they're incomplete when they're actually complete, and I saw that the Super Famicom list says Shinseiki Odysselya is complete when it's still in progress. But I did learn about COUNTIF() which you used to count up the various categories of completion. All I did before was use separate columns for each category and place in 1s wherever appropriate. Thanks for that! It sure helped make things much more streamlined and concise.

One thing I've thought about doing (and now I wonder if I will regret doing so if I don't get around to it) is going through the Atlases with a fine-toothed comb.

When I was going through the NES atlas, I noticed a few Japanese games that weren't indicated as such with the (J) after the title. So I suppose I could go through those two atlases when I check the Japanese and European completion rates and e-mail you a report of the inconsistencies and which games are unlicensed, homebrew, etc.

Hard to say if multiple request lists work.  But at the very least, they might remind people of games that are likely to be mapped anyway.  Recreating the NES Game Atlas and the library of the NES Classic Edition were easy, but the Super NES versions of both of those took longer, the Super NES Classic isn't even done.  Same with my Nintendo Power magazine cover games topic.  The Game Boy "Game Atlas" recreation topic is stagnant despite having only Super Mario Bros. Deluxe remaining...

I didn't really imagine it as a request list, but rather simply as a reference. But that'd be interesting to at least get an inkling of what people would like to see via some sort of polling, that's for sure. After compiling my lists, it gave me a few ideas of new games to try mapping out, at least ones that are much simpler to do than fully-fledged RPGs, haha.
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Will
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« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2019, 05:25:51 AM »

Let me know which games of yours are actually COMPLETE or INCOMPLETE so I can make the emendations.
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FlyingArmor
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« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2019, 09:26:54 AM »

Sure thing. Here's the games that are complete:

NES / FC:
Final Fantasy III (FC)
Legend of the Ghost Lion

SNES / SFC:
Final Fantasy VI (SFC)
GD Leen (SFC)
Silva Saga II (SFC)
Ultima VI: The False Prophet

And the one that's incomplete is the one I mentioned above: Shinseiki Odysselya (SFC). Thanks! Smiley
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G.E.R.
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« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2019, 01:42:55 AM »

You can view it at

Quote
Big Nose Freaks Out - incomplecte

Why incomplete? I know this game very well and I ripped the missing level maps (last year) from this game, include the main level + hidden levels. Or are there an other hidden areas that i don't know about?
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Will
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« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2019, 12:07:20 PM »

A mistake on my part. Now I've amended it.
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G.E.R.
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« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2019, 09:34:48 AM »

Ok, I reviewed the game list.
Almost all game, which I played and which I knew, was ripped and posted in the atlas. I will think of what I can ripped. May be there any assumptions, what is needed primary, or which maps will be informative and helpful for you?
The NES games is easy to rip, it has a simply 8-bit images and well processed in Screenshot Autosticker
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JonLeung
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« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2019, 09:25:36 PM »

One thing I've thought about doing (and now I wonder if I will regret doing so if I don't get around to it) is going through the Atlases with a fine-toothed comb.

When I was going through the NES atlas, I noticed a few Japanese games that weren't indicated as such with the (J) after the title. So I suppose I could go through those two atlases when I check the Japanese and European completion rates and e-mail you a report of the inconsistencies and which games are unlicensed, homebrew, etc.

Thanks again for your email about the NES/Famicom page.  If you refresh that page now you should see that all the filenames have been corrected to say "(Unlicensed)" if so, plus the "(E)" and "(J)" fixes (and one "(T)" fix).  So that's one major page vastly improved!

EDIT: Drat, looks like I have to fix all the past yearly news pages to say "(Unlicensed)" or correct the region...  It's late so I'll do that tomorrow...

EDIT: Okay, I fixed them.  Apparently 2012 is the only year where we didn't get stuff that I had to fix just now.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 02:26:48 PM by JonLeung » Logged
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